Discouragement

[mccormick]

Have any of the amateurs or veterans that were once amateurs gotten discouraged since coming here? After seeing

the many great pictures (that seem unbelievable to me) and seeing my low critique scores (with no comments of why

my picture isn't very good), I have started to become discouraged. All of my friends and family tell me they like my

pictures - maybe they are not being truthfull, or perhaps they don't have an eye for photography like the professionals

here. Although I am simply an amateur right now, it seems that I am a long ways off from being a good photographer.

 

I have done plenty of research on basic composition and still need to figure out how to successfully light a

photograph, but I think a lot of what photography is can not be learned, it comes naturally. Maybe I simply don't

have the gift, maybe I just need to keep working at it, either way I will keep taking pictures and try to develop my

skills - just wanted to know if anyone else has had these thoughts.

[lex_photo]

Keep the photos coming, we all get better with practice. It was hard at first for me as well, but I think I have grown a lot by

listening to the comments that I have received. Also with the ratings, take them as is and use them to help you look at

your work in a new light. I've found that I tend to have emotional attachments to my photos which stop me from at first

seeing them the way they really look. I hope this helps.

[petemillis]

Nick, you just got to read, practice and experiment and look around you at everything and imagine how it would appear in a photograph. Think about what sort of things inspire you, what sort of emotions you like to put across, what does something you look at do to you.

 

And practice and experiment with exposure. Take shots of the same scene with different apertures to get a feel for how depth of field changes. Just read and experiment and continue to learn.

 

The biggest thing really is WANTING to take photographs. Seeing something and WANTING to photograph it. Imagining a finished photograph and WANTING to have made it.

 

And IGNORE ratings numbers here. LISTEN instead to what people say. Look through the galleries here for the sort of photographs you like and find out how they were taken. ASK the photographer for advice. ASK anyone here for advice.

 

I've just had a look at your photographs...the RUGGED one looks like it could be improved. It is slightly underexposed and the photograph is flat and dull looking. The exposure could have been improved at the time you took the photograph but it can still be helped slightly with some very simple post processing. The EXIF data on the photograph tells me you took the picture with a Nikon D60, at 1/4000 of a second, with an aperture of f4.5 and an ISO setting of 1600. This ISO setting is far too high for a daylight photograph and leads to lots of noise (grainy look) in the photograph. The shutter speed of 1/4000 of a second means that you have to use a wide (f4.5) aperture. The wide aperture means that you see softness and light fall off at the corners of the picture. If you had used a lower ISO setting (say 100 or 200) and a slower shutter speed (say 1/250s) then you could have used a much smaller aperture (f8 is nearly always good) to get a crisper photograph and less noise.

 

As a start, set you camera to ISO 200, set the metering to "Av" (aperture priority) and go round shooting at about f8 aperture. The camera will set the shutter speed itself and you'll soon learn what happens when the shutter speed becomes too slow. You can alter the aperture to f2.8 or something to get a smaller DOF (say to focus on a flower and put the background out of focus). Just experiment.

 

Just out of curiosity, I took the RUGGED picture and made 3 very small tweaks in post processing software (you should be able to do this with your Nikon software). I altered the top and bottom markers on the histogram to bring them closer to the histogram, then I applied an s curve to give the picture more oomph, and very slightly sharpened the photograph. The following two pictures show you the difference that 30 seconds of post processing can make. Had you used a smaller aperture the the foreground trailer and so on would have been much crisper and in focus.<div></div>

[petemillis]

And now.....<div></div>

[stevespencer]

Nick, see my response to <a href="http://www.photo.net/casual-conversations-forum/00QUNp">this thread</a>.<br><br>

I think the first tenet to adopt is, that this should be <i>fun</i>! We do not have to all be experts or major

talents to enjoy this craft/art. If we pay attention and keep at it, putting into practice what we learn, our

images are bound to improve. <br><br>

One of the best things I have gleaned from this site is to have met a few like-minded individuals who work with

me to help me improve, and with whom I try to do the same. Often this occurs off-board through email or other

web venues. Some would label this a mate-rating or mutual admiration society, but it is not. We offer each

other advice on how to improve our craft, but we are also supportive of each other and treat each other with

<i>respect</i>.<br><br>Regarding ratings: I refuse to accept ratings because, after seeing how ratings are

bitched about on this site, they simply hold no validity for me. I

submit all my photos for critique only. I do not rate photos. I cannot understand why people get so bent out of

shape when they get a less than stellar rating with no explanation (they did ask for ratings, right?). That is

the way the site is <i>designed</i>, so my advice to those who can't accept that is to not accept ratings (but I

never hear them complaining as to why they don't get an explanation when they get a 6 or 7 :) ). A few years

back, I was actually harassed and cyberstalked by a person here because I left a lower than average rating on one

of his photos without offering an explanation (I was new here and didn't know about the

low-ratings-without-comments controversy.) <br><br>Critiques can be hard to come by here and are rarely incisive

in a constructive way. This could be due to a number of reasons many of which have been discussed here, such as:

getting attacked for offering a constructive critique, established professionals posting their work for rating

and critique but not really wanting a critique - only accolades, etc. <br><br>Do not be discouraged. If I may

be of assistance, let me

know. I don't claim to be an expert, but, as I have said before, I do know a few things.<br><br>-Steve<br><br>

<a href="http://clique404.blogspot.com">Clique404</a><br>

<a href="http://asensordarkly.blogspot.com">One Photographer's Vision</a><br>

<a href="http://www.freewebs.com/capitalcity">Capital City Wallpaper</a>

[guendanadxi]

I guess everyone had this thoughts once in a while...

 

The way I see it, photography is not a gift as such, is a learned (and earned) skill, one that you need to work as much as

your time allow every day. Maybe it could come easier to some people, but if you really like taking photos I wonder if

you will accept anyone telling you that you dont have "the gift".

 

Even so, trying hard is never enough, you need some sort of guidance. Self learning has the limits of your own

perception, so is always helpful to have someone else insight.

 

I'm new too to photography and to photonet in general, but I am starting to see that PNet is more like a complement to

whatever plan do you already have in mind to make tour photos better and better... (do you have a plan? taking a

course, shot everyday, understanding exposure, playing with filters, playing with light, etc)

 

As for the ratings, I am still wondering the same. You need to ask yourself what does a number means to you? Many

people give anonymus ratings (I guess because it saves them the problem of explaining his/her numbers), several others

only rate a photo of people that already rated them. In general I see that you can only expect a few critics.

Finally, remember that you will be rated by ignorant newbies like me, by people with many years in the trade and all the

people between both extremes.

 

In resume, dont put much faith in numbers, strive to take pics that you like and plan, plan, plan

ohhhh and shot, shot, shot ;)

 

kind regards,

 

Luis

[MichaelChang]

Nick, do you enjoy listening to music? Do you like cars? if you do, think about why your favorite piece of music

moves or excites you. Think about why your favorite car appeals to you and why a crease here and there in its

body design will dramatically change its personality. The same will apply to your photography - thinking about

what makes it good or awful. <br><br>

I see a tree shot in your portfolio. Did you walk around to find a better angle? What was your objective, and

what did you see that appealed to you? Or was it just a random shot without forethought? <br><br>

A good photograph is just an expression of how we see the world through a camera; it can be cultivated in the

same way our view of the world matures as we gain life experiences and education. It doesn't come naturally. To

those whom it apparently does, what we don't see are early influences such as an artistic family culture and

developmental opportunities.<br><br>

I have been shooting a particular willow tree for over 5 years until it was brutally cut down from being hit by

lightning and disease. I also saw the incremental improvement in my pictures over the 5 years of thinking and

practice. It takes time, patience, and an approach that works for YOU. I tend to stick with a subject until I get

it right while others may not - whatever works. <br><br>

Finally, yes I do share your thoughts and marvel at some of the wonderful pictures we see, but we all have

strengths and weaknesses and not everyone develops the same way - some are better in technical areas, some are

experts in optics, mechanics, printing, business etc.. Photography is a broad field of which pretty pictures is

just a fraction of the discipline, although the most obvious. Keep practicing and your pictures will one day be

among the ones you now envy.

[maijaathena]

<P>Hi Nick, Don't let it discourage you! I look at all these awesome photographers as a kick in the a$$. Like

I've mentioned before in these forums, some of these photographers actually make me sick to my stomach they're so

good. But if I like a photo, I study it almost compulsively. I try and figure out what I like about it. (It's

amazing how much one learns, especially about post processing, by just studying a photo.) And then I do a

google search regarding the techniques used in those photos. From one newbie to another, I'll share what I've

discovered so far (with plenty of learning to go!)...</P>

 

<UL>

<LI>A tripod is invaluable (from what I hear, as mine is # 1 on my next gotta buy list).

<LI>Those awesome sunset photographs you see couldn't be had without filters.

<LI>Always shoot in RAW.

<LI>Put your camera in Manual mode and start learning those settings (ISO, aperture, shutter speed).

<LI>I'm still learning about different lenses and focal lengths, but depending on what you want to photograph,

this can make a huge difference. Portraits with my lens... good. So far, horses in arenas with my lens... not

so good.

<LI>Start reading. I just bought Understanding Exposure, and it has been very helpful.

<LI>Learn Photoshop. I can't say enough even about subtle post processing -- a little contrasting and saturating

and sharpening can sometimes turn an OK photo into a good one! And the magical things one can do are fun too --

like cheating and making a photo look like it was printed on that beautiful saturated Velvia paper.

<LI>Find a couple of photographers here at PN and really study their stuff.

<LI>When stumped, post a question here.

<LI>Read the forums. They're helpful. You'll ALWAYS learn something new when the more experienced are "talking

shop."

<LI>Start experimenting with natural light photography, taking shots near a window with indirect light. (I do

all my portrait shots in my son's room, next to his north facing bay window.)

<LI>Shoot outdoors early in the morning and near sunset. There's an amazing clarity in the sky during those

times and everything looks so beautiful.

<LI>And shoot, shoot, shoot away. At this time, don't force your art. For now, let what you're good at find you.

</UL>

<P>I'm not sure how long you've had your camera, but I've had mine for about seven months now. And when I get

completely frustrated, which is often, I have to remind myself about my lack of experience. Some of these

photographers have been photographing for quite a long time. Even five years is a long time. Imagine the guys

who've been doing this for twenty? So it's time for us newbies to put in our time and just look forward to how

much better we're going to get! ;-)</P>

 

<P>-Maija</P>

[daved1]

Nick, are you aspiring to be like them or just marvel at what they have accomplished? For me it's not so much the end result as it is getting there. I enjoy getting out and shooting. If I get a great shot in the process of just going out and enjoying the tranquility so be it. I can produce a great looking photo (in my darkroom) and a pretty average one, uploaded to here (equipment and learning issues). I think we all want to get better but, what you do and the way you do it is 'you'. What they do and the way they do it is 'them'. As been already said, look for those type photos you are interested in and try and learn with and from those particular people. Then just be happy and enjoy yourself. :)

[saskphotog]

I think the three most important aspects of a photograph that "make" it are quality of light, composition, and post processing. It has always been that way, in spite of those who think post processing is a digital invention. And it is those things that I would suggest you should look for in your efforts to make your photography more like your imagination envisions.

 

If the light isn't there, it isn't going to work, so look for the light, and when you find it shoot lots. Study the scene to find the composition that works; often slight changes in position or viewing angle can work wonders. Sometimes you can "snap" a shot and get something; sometimes you need to spend time walking, looking, sitting, in order to find a composition that works. Learn to use post processing to your advantage (I think Raw is a vital part of this process).

 

All of this, of course, includes the assumption that you have mastered the craft of using the camera to capture good files from which to start.

 

And in the end make the photographs you want, not what you think will impress the critics on Photo.Net. As Dave said, photography (actually everything in life) should be about the process. If you loose sight of that fact, you will get discouraged, or angry, or just plain unhappy and you will be missing the whole point.

[mccormick]

Thank you all for your responses. First off, Pete made me realize that I still have a long ways to go before I understand how my camera works. I will admit that when I took the shot a couple weeks ago I had how aperture and depth-of-field work mixed up (thought a bigger iris would produce wider focus), so that prevented me from having a lot in focus. But, even then I would not have a clear subject (like Spencer said in his photo critque). I also had no idea that the ISO was set that high, it was an overcast day (destroying the lighting in my shot) so maybe the camera was trying to compensate while in Program mode, not sure. Also, thanks for the quick edit Pete, I really need to learn how to use the editing software I have so I can improve my photos.

 

As far as being discouraged goes I think I was like Alexa and became attached to my photos, so when I found out they were not very good pictures, I took it personally. As many of you have said, the number system is worthless when no actual critiques are given, so submitting photos for critique only is probably the best way to go.

 

In the thread Spencer linked to, Melissa may have hit my problem spot on - "I have gotten pretty overwhelmed by everything I have been reading "the how’s", "Why’s" and the cost of gadgets. I decided that I needed to refocus on "why I” take photos in the first place.". That is exactly what I have been doing, and exactly what everyone has said I need to do. I need to remember that photography is a hobby and I should enjoy it. No doubt there are moments that I will get frustrated, but then I just need to remember my lack of experience (Like Maija).

 

Like suggested I will just keep shooting and experimenting to get practice as well as picking up a few books to learn what changing the different camera settings can do for my photos. In addition, I was thinking about taking the photo classes that Ritz offers. Has anybody tried these? Were they helpful?

[cheryl_jacobs]

Nick, you've gotten some great responses already. I thought I would give my two cents in the form of an article I wrote a few years

back. It's directed primarily to portrait photographers, but most of it applies to photography in general. It's a bit of a long read, but you

may find it helpful.

 

*****************

 

What Every Aspiring Photographer Should Know

 

I get asked all the time, during workshops, in e-mails, in private messages, what words of wisdom I would give to a new and aspiring

photographer. Here's my answer.

 

- Style is a voice, not a prop or an action. If you can buy it, borrow it, download it, or steal it, it is not a style. Don't look outward for your

style; look inward.

 

- Know your stuff. Luck is a nice thing, but a terrifying thing to rely on. It's like money; you only have it when you don't need it.

 

- Never apologize for your own sense of beauty. Nobody can tell you what you should love. Do what you do brazenly and

unapologetically. You cannot build your sense of aesthetics on a concensus.

 

- Say no. Say it often. It may be difficult, but you owe it to yourself and your clients. Turn down jobs that don't fit you, say no to

overbooking yourself. You are no good to anyone when you're stressed and anxious.

 

- Learn to say "I'm a photographer" out loud with a straight face. If you can't say it and believe it, you can't expect anyone else to, either.

 

- You cannot specialize in everything.

 

- You don't have to go into business just because people tell you you should! And you don't have to be full time and making an

executive income to be successful. If you decide you want to be in business, set your limits before you begin.

 

- Know your style before you hang out your shingle. If you don't, your clients will dictate your style to you. That makes you nothing more

than a picture taker. Changing your style later will force you to start all over again, and that's tough.

 

- Accept critique, but don't apply it blindly. Just because someone said it does not make it so. Critiques are opinions, nothing more.

Consider the advice, consider the perspective of the advice giver, consider your style and what you want to convey in your work.

Implement only what makes sense to implement. That doesn't make you ungrateful, it makes you independent.

 

- Leave room for yourself to grow and evolve. It may seem like a good idea to call your business "Precious Chubby Tootsies"....but what

happens when you decide you love to photograph seniors? Or boudoir?

 

- Remember that if your work looks like everyone else's, there's no reason for a client to book you instead of someone else. Unless

you're cheaper. And nobody wants to be known as "the cheaper photographer".

 

- Gimmicks and merchandise will come and go, but honest photography is never outdated.

 

- It's easier to focus on buying that next piece of equipment than it is to accept that you should be able to create great work with what

you've got. Buying stuff is a convenient and expensive distraction. You need a decent camera, a decent lens, and a light meter. Until

you can use those tools consistently and masterfully, don't spend another dime. Spend money on equipment ONLY when you've

outgrown your current equipment and you're being limited by it. There are no magic bullets.

 

- Learn that people photography is about people, not about photography. Great portraits are a side effect of a strong human connection.

 

- Never forget why you started taking pictures in the first place. Excellent technique is a great tool, but a terrible end product. The best

thing your technique can do is not call attention to itself. Never let your technique upstage your subject.

 

- Never compare your journey with someone else's. It's a marathon with no finish line. Someone else may start out faster than you, may

seem to progress more quickly than you, but every runner has his own pace. Your journey is your journey, not a competition. You will

never "arrive". No one ever does.

 

- Embrace frustration. It pushes you to learn and grow, broadens your horizons, and lights a fire under you when your work has gone

cold. Nothing is more dangerous to an artist than complacency.

 

- Cheryl Jacobs Nicolai

[bernie moore]

Nick, when I first came on PN I was highly distressed as my genius was rebuked with threes and fours. I stayed away from the numbers game for a while, then recently I started rating some photos and as you know your rating is compared to others after you commit. I have to say my ratings were extremely close to the averages. Hmm...

(1) maybe they were/ are right back then?(2) Better raters have invaded PN? (3) Friends and family may not be the best critics as relationships trump brutal honesty.

As a rater, I give your thumbnail a second, maybe two. Then I decide whether i want to see the large size and post a number. If I'm impressed, I'll go to the "critique" and comment. If I see a flaw that can be improved I suggest an alternative respectfully. Some pics impress me, some leave me with nothing. Keep shooting, keep posting; the buggers will come around in time...when we get better:)

[sfcole]

Sorry, I thought that of the above photos, the first looked more natural. The second looked garish and frankly, "digital."

[Lou_Meluso]

Nick, the young novice photographer goes up to the great master photographer and says "Master, how do I improve as a photographer, and the Master looks at him and says" go out and make 10,000 photographs" Then, he says, you will see improvement. Words of wisdom. Don't believe word one of anyone (especially yourself) telling you that you have no talent for it. Persistance, hard work and desire are more powerful than talent every day. Stick with it!

[uphoto1]

Nick...I understand how you feel. I posted a link to my first wedding shoot that I was actually proud of and based off the feedback I received, I don't feel so proud anymore. However, I know that the people I shot the photos for absolutely love how they turned out which is more important to me than anyone else's opinion. However, some of the constructive criticism I received is advice I can actually put to good use to improve the things that I knew I was having trouble with. The key is to not take anything anyone says on here as a personal attack, and also to not get too caught up with comparing yourself to other people. You definitely want to look for inspiration, but also understand that every photographer has their own eye....and we all have to start somewhere (just like they did!). The key for us amateurs is to learn the basic concepts, rules and techniques and apply it to our own style. But as far as I'm concerned....at the end of the day, if I am happy with my work, and I touched at least one person with it, that's enough to keep me motivated. <br/><br/>

Never let anyone discourage you from doing something you love! There are people out there that make themselves feel better by tearing others down.

[seandepuydt]

Nick, keep shooting. PLain and simple. When you hit the wall, keep going, keep shooting. Shooting is the only way you will get where you want to go. Read, read some more, make some Pnet friends, and keep shooting. - Sean

[petemillis]

Scott "Sorry, I thought that of the above photos, the first looked more natural. The second looked garish and frankly, "digital." "

 

That's what comes with working on a poor photograph to start with - lots of digital noise from the high ISO setting made even worse by increasing the exposure level. It was intended to give a rough idea of how minor changes in post processing can increase contrast and levels, and not to try and win any awards. Garish is just as easy with film.

[mccormick]

Those are good Cheryl, a lot of them could be applied to any amateur photographer.

<p>

Sharvon, it seems like that is the norm for amateurs, we both just need to keep shooting and consider any advice

that is given to us.

<p>

Can somebody also look at <a href="http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?

topic_id=1481&msg_id=00QVtU&photo_id=7671651&photo_sel_index=0"> this picture </a> I submitted for critique?

I put it in for critique only which is leaving me with absolutely no feedback. It seems that nobody wants to even click

on it to get a better look, so there must be plenty wrong with it, I just need some guidance.

[phule]

Nick,

 

To be brutally honest, why would anyone /want/ to click on it? It's a photo of a cat. It's a nice looking cat to me, but that doesn't mean a whole lot.

 

The real question is: how is this photo any different than the hundreds of other photos of cats on photo.net? Cats are a very popular subject, so in order to be noticed you have to present it in a rather extraordinary way. I don't think you've done that here.

[mccormick]

True enough. I am obviously bias then, because there are plenty of other unoriginal pictures in the pets forum and I believe some of them are less interesting than mine, yet they are getting comments and views. Perhaps I should just shoot a lot more before I upload any more photos.