Wanted: classic but cheap 35mm rangefinder

[Andrew in Austin]

The Leica IIIg has the largest viewfinder of the old Barnacks - but the RF and VF are not integrated. The IIIg still has separate eyepieces for the RFand VF. I have both the IIIf and the IIIg. The finder upgrade on the IIIg and the modern shutter speed progression are nice features - but it is a pricey camera.

 

My favorite Leica alternative in screw mounts is the Canon P with its big finder, three sets of frame lines and modern film loading. The Canon P is built like an old world tank and definitely shows engineers sweat. Don't confuse it the fixed-lens Canonets build by any means.

[Andy Collins]

Since one of your operant words is "cheap", I can contribute. Even though some complain about the build quality

of the Canonet, I've never had any problems with that aspect of the camera and have instead found it to be a

solid and superb performer. It does seem however, that prices for GIII-QL17s are beginning to creep up a bit, and

where they went for $50 or less a couple of years ago (I bought my last one for $15 because the seller thought

the meter didn't work. Once I cleaned the battery chamber it worked like a dream!), it's not uncommon to see them

in the $50-$100 range, sometimes (not often) as much as $150 for a CLA'd one with new seals. It's certainly a

camera worth experiencing. Another popular one is the Olympus 35RC; it has a following both in the Classic Camera

forum on this site and at RangefinderForum. It has a beautifully sharp 5-element f/2.8 lens in an amazingly

compact (and solid!) body, and it's fully featured. Other Olys include the 35RD (almost all of which suffer

shutter issues at some point in their lives) and the Oly 35DC, a completely automatic version of the 35RD that

you only have to focus and shoot. It has a legendary 6-element Zuiko f/1.7 lens, the same as in the 35RD.

Yashicas are great but I prefer the older Yashicas such as the Lynx 1000 much more so than the very popular

Electro 35 GSN, also a very nice camera. 60s-vintage Fujicas (especially the Compact Deluxe-one of my

favorites!), Retinas, also name brands to look into. I agree that you should read all the info on compact 35

rangefinders at CameraQuest and the excellent links Christopher M has provided. Those are some of my favorite sites.

[02Pete]

If what you want is a well-engineered, quality vintage 35mm interchangeable-lens rangefinder camera that is generally somewhat less expensive than the Leica M series, Canon produced a range of such cameras between the early 1950s and late 1960s, prior to the period when they began selling the Canonet series of fixed-mount cameras. There were a variety of different models -- Canon VI, L-1, P, 7, and 7-s, among others. They were very well-made, though perhaps a bit less durable than Leicas. They took Canon, Leica, Nikkor and other lenses in Leica thread mount (LTM), also known as "screwmount." Some of the Canon lenses, especially ones such as the 35mm f/2 and 50mm f/1.4 from the early 1960s, were of very high optical quality. The trick is finding one of these cameras in good working order for a reasonable price. Given their age, a cleaning lubrication and adjustment (CLA) service is usually advisable before putting one into frequent use, which will add a bit to the cost of the camera. If you can find a copy, a book by Peter Dechert, "Canon Rangefinder Cameras 1933-1968," published by Hove in 1985, might be helpful in illustrating and describing the features of the various models.Given your reference to 100 pounds sterling, I assume that you are in the UK. I regret that I can't offer any advice on reputable dealers or current pricing for these cameras there. In the US, dealers such as KEH carry these from time to time, as they become available on the used market.

[steve_mareno]

I have a Fed 2 that has just been CLA'd and an Industar 22 (50mm f3.5) collapsible that I would sell you for $100 US. That would leave you a fund for more lenses. It is a Leica screw mount camera and takes all the Russian and Leica screw mount glass. Just send me an email if you are interested. It is more Leica-like than Russian. Very smooth film advance, smooth focus, and very quiet shutter. Everything works great. I am going to sell it because I wear glasses and seeing the RF patch w/ my nearly 60 year old eyes is sometimes difficult.

 

 

The Zorki and Feds are your best bets since they are cheap and take great glass. But getting one on the auctions nearly always means sending them out for CLA's to get them working properly.

[Alex_Es]

Get an M6 classic. It is fairly cheap and it is very good. I am talking about the $1500 range. It is up to date in that it has

built in metering and should require minimum care. You can shoot a wide variety of lenses with it, from 135mm to 28mm.

All told, it is a bargain.

[Landrum Kelly]

The Canon 7 is pretty inexpensive and is still around on eBay. Most of them have wrinkled shutters but still shoot fine. The weak point might be the meter after so many years.

 

I bought mine just so that I could try the f/0.95 lens on it, but the lens is almost unusable for all practical purposes at that aperture. Stopped down it does very well.

 

--Lannie

[nzdavid]

Wow, heaps of info here, I really can't add too much, except my favorite would still be a Leica. As youare in the UK, check

out ffordes photographic in Scotland (https://secure.ffordes.com/index.htm) and have a quiz to see what's around. Also

check out www.leicashop.com. My first serious camera in the 70s (purchased when I was 12) was an Olympus 35RC.

These little compacts and similar really are good performers, and will probably last a lot longer than the average digi

models. Enjoy the retro buzz!

[john fleshin]

If you lurk about in second hand shops, garage sales, camera shows, or get one of those cheap flights to Prague,

and have a bit of patience, you will do all right.

 

My junk has turned in to a collection, most of the Former Soviet stuff seems to end up a complicated project, but

they look good, and lots of people here seem to have better luck than any others worldwide.

 

Any thing with German war markings is either a once in a life time find, or some reworked fraud, you can guess

which you might be looking at, and I know someone in the business who bit on one. Coated lens kind of gave it

away, along with the personal engraved portrait of Goering and DeGaulle shaking hands.

 

In fixed lens, if you get a good working model cheap, you will never lose any money.

 

Minolta Color 35, great little user, I have one in black. Ricoh with a bottom winder, shutter works, viewfinder clean,

and though mine is good, it is repairable. Petri, another nice fixed lens. Canonets, great lenses, mine needs a

shutter clean.

 

I would lean toward Japanese products, because so many were made and exported in the 60's. Lots at shows and

garage sales for $20 and up.

 

I really also like the old Retinas, and a 1a is a scale focus, but what a little beauty that folds to really fit your pocket,

and very light. Little shoe polish or MG seat wax on the leather, and it will be the envy of any who look upon it.

 

If you look around, and want a Screw Mount serious RF, you will eventually find a Leica. If it does not work, beat the

price down and invest $100 in a good CLA (yes you will have to post around to find the right guy to fix it), and many

of them were engraved which kills the collector value, but you want to shoot it, not collect? Lots of the IIIc's had poor

plating, again, users. Have seen many needing work in the $100 range, with a lens. Anything scratched up,or

poorly plated, perhaps less.

 

Even User M series Leica, I just sold a beautiful, CLA'd M3 very low, because someone engraved his name on the

base plate, which could be changed, but I had the camera rebuilt and sold it for $500. I made $50 on the camera,

but got some other stuff from the bag it was in. Camera went to Japan. Some guy got a terrific user that was really

not bad looking, name was 1/8 inch high or less, and not Russian. That is not far from your target, and its value will

only go up. If I had a new plate for the bottom, it would have sold for $650.

 

Local store just sold a chrome M4 with a black 28mm M lens in good working order for $1000, you could break up

the pair and make a profit. Lens was easily worth $700.

 

If you get an M3 or M2, you will have a very very usable camera, and you can still use any Leica Screw Mount lens

with a relatively cheap adapter, so what ever you find will be usable, then if you want to sell the stuff and move up,

you will not lose any money. SM lenses range from OK to terrific, I use some on my M8.

 

Actually, the M2 seems to attract many users.

 

Try www.IgorCamera.com, and write to Igor, he may find what you want at a show, and he knows people to rebuild

them if needed. Almost any old Leica, like an old watch, will be dry and need a proper rebuild. Igor will sell it for

parts, or have it rebuilt, he sends out a dozen a week for repair.

 

If you take off a camera's lens, and the shutter is bad, pay accordingly, knowing that when you get the camera

rebuilt, a proper repairman can easiy fit a new shutter.

 

Every week he ships worldwide, and I know he is very conservative in his grading. His user condition Leica is a NYC

9+.

 

The Czech's say, you must hurry slowly. You will be surprised when something falls in to your lap.

 

If it is a British made Leica Screw Mount, with a name beginning with perhaps R, it is worth almost nothing, so call

me to buy it. ;-)

 

Regards, John

[grodis]

Out of all the "Classic" camera I have the best performer for the buck is my Kodak Retina IIa Type (016) It does amazing large prints that embarrass many digitals. If you don't like the "folder-like" Retina the Zorki's are fun but a pain to load. Here's the Retina:<div></div>

[frank]

I recommend the Bessa R4M or R4A with built-in frames for 21, 25, 28, 35 and 50 mm, in case you are a wide shooter. More universal is the Bessa R2A with its frames for 35, 50, 75 and 90 mm. All the Bessas are superbly built and finished (look at the price tag!) and very reliable. You can use many, many M-lenses from Cosina-Voigtlander, Leica, Konica or Zeiss.<div></div>

[bluphoto]

I do like the look of that Bessa, for sure (does it come in chrome by any chance?). Checked it out on Amazon and

apparently the main items buyers of this item also purchase are... wait for it... SD memory cards.

 

I do worry about some people!

 

Lovely looking machine though.

 

I'll check out the classifieds. I could maybe stretch to GBP£200 WITH a 50mm lens.

 

PS I just got a "congratulations" email from ebay telling me I'd just won my first RF camera - a Canonet 28, for all of

GBP£4.99. (I think a roll of film will cost more than the body!)

 

Still liking the look of that Bessa though.

[lilserenity]

What about an Olympus XA? Devil's advocate here, definitely not 60s and definitely not the classic rangefinder

look, but very capable and well made. (Ok perhaps not quite as solid as an M3, or my EOS 3 which I have used as a

mallet for knocking in tent pegs before now....)

 

It's a fully coupled rangefinder and very small, ideal for the pocket. Aperture Priority ATL metering if you like

things fairly automated too. The nicest bit is the 35mm f/2.8 F.Zuiko lens which is good wide open and becomes

very sharp at f/5.6 and beyond.

 

Also usually comes with a flash unit which is detachable.

 

It's a great little camera which I love (even more than my Olympus Trip 35) as it's a fully fledged fixed lens

rangefinder, dead simple to use, a natural 35mm wide angle aspect that I prefer greatly over 28mm for portraiture

and low light work so for me it's a winner. The only downside is that it's ISO/ASA range is 25-800, 1600 would be

good.

 

There are also XA1, XA2, XA3 and XA4 variants. The XA1 is the most basic and I wouldn't bother. The XA2 is

virtually the same but is not fully coupled (a big point for me and low light work) and has a 35mm f/3.5 lens

instead but is apparently sharper still. The XA3 is like the XA2 I think but has DX capability (auto-sets the

ISO) and the XA4 is macro capable, not fully coupled but does have a 28mm f/3.5 lens but is pretty hard to find

and expensive.

 

A good example of an Olympus XA may only cost you between £30-50. It doesn't have the classic Leica M3 look

whatsoever but I am always very pleased with the results.

[bluphoto]

Thanks for bringing the Olympii up as an option, Vicky, but it's the classic style RF's that I'm after in particular.

[mohir_ali]

Leica CL?

[lilserenity]

No worries Guy :) In that case I would recommend saving for a Bessa R4a or maybe an R2a (if 35mm is ok in terms of frame lines.) It's a very good option and they are very well made. The R2a will be my next camera, saving up for one now. Then I'll save for a lens...

 

Robert White is probably your best bet in the UK: http://www.robertwhite.co.uk/product.asp?P_ID=925&PT_ID=290&P=Voigtlander-Bessa-R2A-rangefinder-body

 

As for the Leica CL option, that's a good suggestion, and the Minolta CLE (basically an updated Leica CL, some describe as an orphaned Leica) also M mount compatible with Av metering. Probably the most 'technically' advanced Leica until the M7. (I'm saying that with the fear of god hanging over me as I'm sure I'm wrong according to some othodox!!)

[christopher_m]

I know the <a href="http://www.cameraquest.com/voigrf.htm">Bessa R</a>, the <a

href="http://www.cameraquest.com/voigt_250.htm">Bessa R2M</a> come in a silver color. I'm not sure about the

others.

[miles_s.]

If you want a small classic looking RF then try the Olympus RC. I recommend the Canonet GIII Q17 as a test camera. After that it is per your taste drawing on some of the great advice above.

[Alan Johnson]

Here's a nice FSU retro, FED 2 and Jupiter 8<div></div>

[mjferron]

Canon 7's are cool and well built. I have right now a Leica CL and Voitlander 40 1.4. Total investment on the combo was U.S. $650. I'm new with it but am impressed so far.

[carbon_dragon]

I've heard the Canon's mentioned and the 7 is a very good shooter. My first camera was a Konica I, and the early postwar Konicas are actually nicely made cameras with good lenses (though they are not interchangeable). And the Konica I has the quietest shutter I've ever used.

[pensacolaphoto]

I happen to have a Taron 35 rangefinder camera with a 50mm/2.8 lens that may be a good choice for your needs.

[fotografya]

Get yourself a Kiev 3 (or 4 series) rangefinders, you can find one with Jup 8 50mm+Jup 12 35mm+Jup 11 135 mm+Jup 9 85mm + Turret finder. All will cost 200-250 USD for you. And they are remarkably remarkable. :)

[Mike Gammill]

The Konica and Olympus are so cheap, why not one of each? The Konica Auto S2 and S1.6 are big, but balance well and are easy to hold steady even at slow shutter speeds. For compactness with automation and manual options, the Olympus RC is hard to beat. I like having a shutter knob on top. I have all three. They feel more precise, IMHO, than the Canonette GIII 17 which I also have as well as the less common Canonette 19. The Canons are just as capable of producing great results, I just like the feel of the Konicas and Olympus a little better. The Konica C35 is a fun little rangefinder, but is program only automation. Since it is almost as large as the RC, I usually pick the RC over it for outings. The late 50's vintage Ricoh 500 with the bottom trigger wind is a fun camera too. No meter, but good lens. It has a classic look that attracts a lot of attention. Got a near mint one of ebay for about $30 a few years back.

[frank_horn]

Joe-

That Retina IIa brings back fond memories. I had one with the f2 Ektar (uncoated). I can't recall if it was synced, or I had it synced. Its shutter speeds were way slow. 1/500 was completely broken. The viewfinder was really small, but I had a good time with it!

 

These cameras are all very tired by now, and those who work on them are also very tired. I'd look for a good IIC. The IIIC would be good, but the meter probably won't work.

[rick_shanahan]

Guy- I want to toss in my opinion as the owner of a Canonet QL17 GIII...please do not judge Canonets by the Canonet 28, it's not nearly as good as the the 17. I wish you had asked about that model before buying. The QL17 is the flagship Canonet.