iancoxleigh Posted July 9, 2008 Share Posted July 9, 2008 As DSLRs have developed there has been ever increasing progress made on achieving satisfactory lower-noise highISO settings. The new D3 and D700 support up to ISO 25,600 and have easily usable results up to ISO 3200 or evenISO 6400. The D300, which I am currently using, gives quite good results up to ISO 800 and is usable even at 1200or 1600 in a pinch. Why has there been no progress in creating lower sensitivity settings? I, for one, would find ISO 25 or even ISO12 settings to be very useful. As it is, I carry 4-stop and 8-stop NDs and often use my 4x6" hard edge grads asND filters as well. I was thinking of investing in a 10-stop ND filter when I began thinking that there should bea better way. Even if lower sensitivity settings than the base ISO 100 (or ISO 200 in the case of the D300) degraded imagequality in a similar manner as higher ISO settings, it would still be useful as all of the ND filters increasethe number of pieces of glass in front of the lens and that has a negative effect on image quality. The stack ofND filters also increase the risk of flare and ghosting as well as hard-vignetting at wide angles. Plus, it ishard to see and compose through a 10-stop ND filter -- particularly at dawn or dusk (and when trying to positiona grad line looking through the lens). Changing the ISO setting in camera would be much preferable. This is especially true for higher resolution crop-sensor formats since your ability to stop down is limited bydiffraction sooner than on a comparable total resolution FX sensor. I only really like to push it to f/16 on myD300 and prefer to stay at f/14 or even f/11. So, why has there been no development in this area? Is there a shortage of actual photographers (at leastlandscape photographers) who consult with the engineering teams at Nikon or Canon? Maybe this goes right up there with the luminance-only DSLR or the fully-manual DSLR as too niche an item? Idoubt it though and it does not require any re-designing of the actual camera itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellis_vener_photography Posted July 9, 2008 Share Posted July 9, 2008 good question! I'll see if I can get an answer for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
www.philwinterphotography. Posted July 9, 2008 Share Posted July 9, 2008 I've wondered about this, too. My wife's Canon G3 has an ISO 50 option plus an electronic ND filter that I believe is about 2 stops - there's your ISO 12. But the smallest aperture is f8. That's probably why those "non-consumer" feature are included. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f stop Posted July 9, 2008 Share Posted July 9, 2008 I just purchased a D300 myself, and had the same thought process! Unlike you I do not have the ND filters. I just wish I could get iso 100 like my D200 had! --- The bigger thing - in my humble opinion, is that the sensors are beginning to increase their stop range. This is very exciting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronald_moravec1 Posted July 9, 2008 Share Posted July 9, 2008 There are few who want low ISO quality. Look what happened to Ektar 25, the best color neg film Kodak ever made. Kodachrome 25 bit the dust before 64. Manufactures can not custom make cameras, but a higher quality low ISO optional sensor is something I would buy without a doubt. Then I would have both a high and low speed camera. Last week I found myself deep in the New York woods with a D40 and 18/135 f 3.5 lens. I did use 800 ISO and I must say the pics are pretty good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atlatling Posted July 9, 2008 Share Posted July 9, 2008 Oh, who says there are FEW WHO WANT LOW ISO SETTINGS? I doubt that that is true. I certainly would use it if it were available. Fast is not always good. I have taught many to use the slowest films they can use. This would make for a marvelous camera to have that capability built in. I absolutely NEVER (with very rare exceptions) crank my ISO to faster than 100, the slowest it can be set, and really never above 200. It could change the industry. Or would the images degrade with lower numbers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangoldman Posted July 9, 2008 Share Posted July 9, 2008 For panning, a slower ISO speed would make life much easier... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmcleland Posted July 9, 2008 Share Posted July 9, 2008 That's something I've been wondering myself. I was used to shooting ISO 50 film when I "defected" (and shot it at a 32 usually), so to me, ISO 100 was blazing! I guess it would stand to reason that if one could lower the ISO to 50 or beyond that it would cause an increase in quality yah? Isn't that sort of the conventional wisdom? The big "I won the lottery" Hasselblads and Mamiyas go down to 50, so this idea hasn't been completely overlooked. A friend of mine who's an astro-photographer had gotten a hack for his Canon that pushed the ISO up to 3200 or 6400 (one of the two). I wonder if such a hack is available that would go the other way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabbiinc Posted July 9, 2008 Share Posted July 9, 2008 You could always still shoot film. I'm not saying this as a jab at digital but it is an alternative that you can readily use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthew_newton Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 TM, only with film. With a digital sensor there is a certain amount of base sensitivity to the photoreceptors (ISO100 on most sensors, ISO200 on some). If you reduce the sensitivity below the base you are effectively ignoring some of the signal coming out of the photosites, which means you lose data and at a certain point you simply can't drop the signal because the photosite is maxed out in terms of the luminance it can register. I really don't know what the maximum de-sensitization a sensor can accomdate, but from what I have seen from manufacturer's cameras, it looks like about 1 stop down from the native sensitivity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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