Rumor of Pentax's Demise

[._._z]

Compton, try to restrain your fanboyism for a bit. Hoya put Pentax on a strict budget, reports are that despite bland pronouncements of 'successful' sales Pentax's sales and market share are pretty shaky, and the division's fate (at least as a going concern as presently structured) is uncertain. But if you want to have a group hug session with fellow fanatics, party on.

[._._z]

"That's awesome that not only is Pentax SLR division thriving"

 

Is it? What are the numbers? Pewntax does not break out the numbers, only proffers soft terms like 'successful.' Their compact cam sales were terrible, and Hoya convinced them to get out of that market, fine. But that doesn't mean that they'll now have all the funds from those operations to funnel to DSLRs. Hoya still has them on a strict budget, and time will tell whether they will be able to scratch out a niche for themselves in the face of fierce competitors.

[14mm 2.8l]

Mark your calendars as March 31st 2009 will close out exactly 1 full year of Hoya ownership, and their imposed manangement improvement style concerning Pentax logo'd dslrs.

 

I'll likey have gotten the wife a K20D by then. She loves her smaller than Canon sized dslr(s). We testdrove eos 40D today and its just too big for her. And we ruled out 5D already so we're a two brand family still. I'll likely skip K20D for me. But I can see her stick'n with her samsungs and Pentax Made in Japan glass we've been lucky to aquire locally and via ebay.

 

It was kinda Cool "Samsung" got mentioned in Hoya financial reports huh?, yet no Sony or Nikon or Canon got their due mention for all being ahead of Pentax Dslrs. Makes perfect sense to me since in Colorado the hot rumour is samsung manufactures the K20D.

 

We've got almost 3 years of use out of out first samsung dslr, so they do know how to manufacture quality K mount product, I can verify that fact.

 

Its may26th so just ten more months and a couple weeks and we'll all have a better idea whats up with Pentax brand under Hoya's ownership. All in all a short wait compared to the 4 year production/assessmbly lines move from Japan to Vietnam and Philippines, where coincidentally Samsung makes their Samsung logo'd Dslrs too.

 

Lindy

[robert goldstein]

"Pentax Imaging Systems:

 

Q4 year-over-year growth: MINUS 15.5 percent

 

Q4 quarter over quarter growth: MINUS 24 percent"

 

These numbers sound worse than they really are. The fourth quarter of 2006 saw

the introduction of the very successful K10D, whose sales had naturally slowed by

the fourth quarter of 2007. The successor K20D was not introduced until 2008.

 

Everything that I see indicates that Pentax has ambitious plans for its SLR division.

No one can guarantee that it will not get sold, but I think that the product line will

continue in some form for a very long time.

 

Rob

[._._z]

The dumping of an entire division, forced upon them by their parents -- not good. Limited budgets and limited r&d -- also not good. Reminds me of that line by Greta Garbo in 'Ninotchka:' "Dere vill be fewer but better Russians."

[14mm 2.8l]

I just got an email to inform me:

 

my area's local proshops will no longer carry Pentax brand products.

 

First order of business for Hoya takeover was to terminate the pentax valuable and knowledgeable Reps in April 2008. Now at end of May 2008 Pentax terminates their marketing in local stores.

 

Might be a good time to look for deep discounts on pentax demo'd lenses in your area's local camera shops?

 

Lindy

[will_daniel1]

This all reminds me of the 1970s when Japanese camera manufacturers wanted to take over their own distribution in the U.S. market. I was directly a part of one (Honeywell to Pentax Corp) and an interested observer of several others. What I can tell you from past experience is don't believe ANYTHING the major company says regarding the rumors or financial performance. You will know what's going to happen the moment it happens, and not a minute before. For months we (Honeywell reps) were told that Asahi was going to buy the entire Honeywell photo division. At the eleventh hour, Asahi execs bolted the meeting and announced they would start their own distribution company minus the other Honeywell product lines. I can't remember the exact timing of events, but within a short time, Honeywell announced a sale of the division, minus Pentax, to Rollei of America.

 

Other hostile takeovers of the era:

 

Ehrenreich Photo -- Nikon

Bell & Howell -- Canon

Ponder & Best -- Vivitar

Berkey Photo -- Konica

Can't remember the names of two New York-based distributors, both of which sold both Yashica and Minolta cameras. I think one was Interstate Photo. Also, can't remember which had Olympus -- I'm thinking it might've been Ponder & Best -- can't be sure.

 

In every example, the Japanese mfrs. held close secrets until the exact moment the deed was done. If Hoya has something planned for ailing Pentax, the timing of their announcement will likely take folks by surprise.

 

Any other old Pentax/Honeywell reps lurking in here?

 

Will

[jtk]

EPOI wasn't a "hostile takeover" (Nikon sought a distributor in the US).

 

Joe Ehrenreich (Ehrenreich Photo Optical Inc...EPOI) bid against Adolph Gasser for Nikon and other franchises. It was a personal rivalry.

 

Nikon's success had as much to do with Joe as with Japanese design/engineering.Adolph designed the FT...pre FtN...meter prism in the US..he also contributed to the Norden bombsite (Hiroshima) and custom built equip for Ansel.

 

The first Asahi, pre Honeywell, were brought into the US by Adolph (and other smugglers) with a metal patch glued over the label.

 

Somebody has to do distribution. The Japanese companies were never any good at it. Canon owes much of today's success to a single plastic slr (A-series) gray market mass marketer: 47th Street. That began the decline of camera stores.

 

Adorama/B&H/Amazon have similar responsibility today. The camera brands are entirely incapable of distribution.

[14mm 2.8l]

I thought Bell & Howell was North American distributor for canon from like 1960 thru 1972. Did canon takeover, buy-out, or acquire Bell and Howell or simply cut the Bell and Howell middle man marketing company out of North America?

 

hoya bought out pentax corp. Hoya cleared out the pentax ceo and entire pentax board of directors months before the publically discussed long drawn out deal was done.

 

To me the Canon and Bell & Howell as their marketing company break up in North America market is different than the outright purchase of pentax corp primarily for its medical division.

 

Lindy

[._._z]

"If Hoya has something planned for ailing Pentax, the timing of their announcement will likely take folks by surprise. "

 

Like Bronica's surprise? Like Konica's? Don't see any new digital cameras from those folks.

 

This 'surprise' stuff makes no sense to anyone who has had any dealings in retail. Hoya's plans are clear for the camera division they showed kittle priority for: squeeze the most profit out of the division while downsizing drastically (including reducing r&d), and seeing what happens next.

[jtk]

B&H was merely a Canon distributor during the Vietnam War. After the war they stopped. B&H always did most of its business with government and school contracts.

 

GSA (Government Service Administration) contracts required preference for "American" products so B&H was used to present Canon as if it was American (eg for US Navy F1s).

 

Kodak sold various German products with "Kodak" labels for the same GSA reason (eg a stainless steel covered Agfa Fotorite machine that sold for $400 more than the same machine without the Kodak cover).

 

Kodak rebranded Zeiss cameras as Kodaks for various state contract rules (eg California Highway Patrol)...bought those cameras except for government rules.

 

Pentax interest in MF digital was ridiculous, just as it would be if Canon or Nikon or Olympus, for that matter, bothered with it. They can all beat MF for nearly all practical professional purposes without MF sensors.

 

IMO Pentax (whoever it is) will keep making K20D and variants for a long time into the future.

[will_daniel1]

Lindy: Canon dumpted B&H as its U.S. distributor. I think it was later than 1972, but not much -- maybe as late as 1974. Memory fades.

 

John: Yeah, "hostile takeover" may have been the wrong term. But I wasn't talking about when Nikon sought a U.S. distributor; rather the unceremoneous dumping of Ehrenreich just like all the other Japanese camera makers dumped theirs in the 1970s. It was certainly hostile for all those EPOI reps I knew who couldn't get a job with the new distributor, Nikon USA.

 

Z: "This 'surprise' stuff makes no sense to anyone who has had any dealings in retail." Yes, and that's precisely why they do it. If they made a major announcement three months before they close doors or otherwise shake up their market, how many cameras would retailers buy during that three months? None at regular prices. Widespread "dumping" of the product would occur -- been there, done that.

 

Will

[14mm 2.8l]

That's Crazy huh Matt?

 

All pentax logo'd lenses are made in VietNam now. Well except for the Tamron 18-250mm pentax logo'd clone. It says Japan, and that made me smile. Why? Because Tamron still manufactures camera equiptment in Japan and the Pentax clone version says Japan. Pentax only Japan made lens is one they do not make themselves.

 

It doesn't mean all this non japan made glass sucks, but it should mean the pentax lenses should all be more affordable? Right? You know because pentax logo'd lenses are all outsourced,

 

Outsourced, just like stuff made in China is far more affordable than stuff made in Japan or USA in our marketplace.

 

I've been having fun shooting too, but 99% of my lenses used recently are all Japan made and a couple were made this year too

 

Do you think Pentax will ever make products, you know like dslrs and lenses, in Japan again?

 

Lindy

[._._z]

Who are you quoting there, Matthew?

[sheila_whitfield]

I live in Colorado where Pentax is located and we have not heard any rumors of any kind here. I just purchased a new 50-135mm lens at my loal Wolf Camera and he made no mention of Pentax going anywhere. I would think that if they were going out of business we would know it here first.

[stemked]

Go away for 10 days and Y'all are at each other throats.

 

Ok all. Let's cool this down. Some good discussion in here but its getting a bit too heated. Looks like I'm going to have to go in and do some editing of comments.

 

Doug

[andrewg_ny]

Lindy Stone: <i>"Do you think Pentax will ever make products, you know like dslrs and lenses, in Japan again?"</i>

 

<P>What difference does this make? Sounds like unnecessary stereotyping. People used to think 'made in Japan' meant 'cheap crap' too.

 

<P>I am wondering about the continuing disappearance or de-emphasis of Pentax availability at brick & mortar retail stores. I think Pentax has great products but am curious about their strategy to make them available. My personal observation is that when I walk into a photo store, I'm likely to see SLR offerings from a particular manufacturer in roughly this order, ranking from highly likely to largely unlikely:

 

<OL>

<LI>Nikon

<LI>Canon

<LI>Olympus (more likely in photo store)

<LI>Sony (less likely in photo store, more likely in big-box store)

<LI>Pentax

<LI>Samsung (Have I ever seen any of these 'in the wild'?)

</OL>

<P>Does Pentax (and Samsung) expect to succeed (in the U.S., anyway) almost completely via internet sales? On the other hand, given the poor state of Pentax's presence in retail stores is at this point, I suppose they don't have much to lose by shaking up the status quo.

[14mm 2.8l]

Bummer, I've always believed Made In Japan meant quality. I guess I am young still and negative associations with Japan Made were before my time?

 

Maybe 14 months ago I asked the Pentax Rep why wasn't Pentax making dslr and lenses in Japan? He immediately replied

 

"No One Does"

 

Well at the time I didn't know better. However I now own canon dslr and 2 canon lenses and they boldly say Made In Japan. Unlike the hidden "VietNam" inside the rear mount of DA lenses it seems canon is proud to mention it and are not hidding it.

 

But I am with you, I wonder about the Pentax marketing plan. From terminating long term Reps to pulling out of store fronts. I guess they have high expectations using their new advertising agency and selling K20D on WalMart dot com with an inflated price back up to full retail plus the govenor fees?

 

Anyways I'll still get a K20D once the price settles out. If the price never settles out then I'll never buy one. But I really see this K20D going to $800 based on pentax past sell high and then drop drop drop the price. And 1/2 launch retail would be $650 so I've inflated my expectations and would be happy to jump in at $800. I'd like to see what I can capture with it and our lenses and far more importantly if it improves the wifes capture too. I am certain now though, It'll be for the wife only as I am satisfied with full frame dslr imaging canon provides me versus shooting with a crop frame viewfinder. Its that simple really I am at a point where using a full frame, which I find it easy to manually focus glass using the big viewfinder is reason enough for me to pass on purchasing anyone elses crop sensor dslr, including canon 1.6x for myself.

 

Sony has another venue for sales, their Sony only outlet stores. No one else has that but I imagine Samsung could if it choose to since they have a vast array of electronics. I wonder why Samsung won't launch their GX20? Its two months overdue. I also wonder why Samsung won't sell their K Mount lenses in USA market? I wonder what they are waiting for? They are obviously capable of manufacturing product yet something seems to be stopping them...

 

Lindy

[zamazal]

Perhaps Pentax just decided to send their next batch of lenses to satisfy demands elsewhere :-). Pentax 16-50 lens was announced to be *finally* available again here in Czech Republic (middle Europe) during the next weeks, after many months of its complete unavailability. And 50-135 should be available soon too!