savagesax Posted May 19, 2008 Share Posted May 19, 2008 I think there is PLENTY of room of 2 photographers. Talk to each other and see who wants to cover what. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david_schilling___chicago_ Posted May 19, 2008 Share Posted May 19, 2008 It's easy to speculate about the groom's sister but no one here knows what's really going on. Perhaps she is indeed a pro and perhaps she's works at the local Walmart studio. Maybe she's one of the many new crop of "churn & burn" pseudo-pros. Calling someone a pro doesn't make them one. We just don't know. Weddings will often bring out the best in families but they can also bring out the "not so best". We don't know what the family dynamics are in this situation. She could be very cool and a real asset for the day. As Bob says, there is plenty of room for two photographers....Roger says that she could be the perfect person to round up family members for group shots.....she could become the perfect mentor. However, Colin provides the aviation analogy: "how would you feel being on a plane that had two sets of controls and both pilots wanted to go to different places? It just doesn't work - they either have to co-operate or the captain pulls rank (and that's YOU by the way!).".....but the problem here is that this is your first solo flight and you've yet to earn the rank. I still very much suggest that you meet with the B/G, get more info on the family dynamics, and establish a relationship with sister before the wedding day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjgcit Posted May 19, 2008 Share Posted May 19, 2008 You can't stop it happening, so why worry about it ? It's her brother's wedding and she's a pro. She'll want to enjoy herself mostly, but it's only natural that she'll want to take shots of some of the main events, especially if she knows you are doing your first wedding. In her situation I'd do that. I suspect she might treat you like an assistant for some of those shots - rather depends on the individual. I'd agree with others - speak to her and get a sense of how the land lies with her. It might help a lot if she feels confident that you can do the job without her help/guidance. Being a pro photog could mean she does product shots all day - she might know less about this than you. Don't compete with her - you can't win. The odds are a million to one the family will consider her photos anything other than superb, regardless of what yours are like. If you block her, they'll get annoyed. Do your job and be polite. As long as you take your shots you're covered. Make sure they have no excuse for not paying whatever is outstanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiva Posted May 19, 2008 Share Posted May 19, 2008 If she wants to get involved then the solution is to give her assignments similar to what you'd ask a second photographer to do. Ask her to get candids and move around the room in locations that you are Not covering and if possible can she use a wide lens when you're using a long lens and when you're shooting with a long lens can she change to a wide lens. The goal might be to put her to work: give her a mission. This would merely enhance the overall photographic coverage and she wouldn't be judging you or competing with you! Instead you've put her to work for the benefit of the bride and groom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin cook - stratford upo Posted May 19, 2008 Share Posted May 19, 2008 Seems odd. If I go to a wedding as a guest I prefer the eat and drink option! Having to watch everyone else enjoy themselves whilst shooting weddings - if I get the chance to let my hair down I do it! I take a 20D with pop up and join the rest of the guests! There can be only one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
achristensen Posted May 19, 2008 Author Share Posted May 19, 2008 WOW. I really appreciate everyone's advice! It gives me a lot to think about. I agree- they will prefer her photographs over mine any day because she is a part of their family. They will be naturally biased and I can't blame them for that. I would expect the same from my family. So I may have to let go of print sales. She is a portrait/wedding photog BTW. I will meet her at the rehearsal dinner to which we've been invited (that in itself seems strange to me, but....). I should get a chance to talk to her then and if she brings it up I will gladly discuss it with her. Like many have said, I should be humble because I haven't earned rank and I may learn a thing or two from her. I don't however think I will call her now, as Nadine said because this could create a problem that may not exist. If on the day, she starts getting in the way of my shots I will politely tell her that the B&G hired me and that I need to fulfill our contract and that she could help by doing such and such. I like the idea of having her help round up the family for the formals. That would be a huge help. How does that plan sound? Diplomatic without being so passive that I get walked on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dennis_oconnor4 Posted May 19, 2008 Share Posted May 19, 2008 Well, the odds are that pro-shooter big sister refused to do the wedding for 'free'... In your shoes I would simply go forth and do what the contract calls for... If big sister turns out to be helpful - wonderful... If big sister turns out to be a problem - go to the B&G and simply say that and ask what THEY want you to do... Next wedding make sure you have a pro contract that protects 'you'... denny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david_amberson1 Posted May 19, 2008 Share Posted May 19, 2008 Dont worry about it. I think its often normal to feel like you're competeting when another person is shooting with anything other than a point and shoot. I remember when I first bought my first SLR(Rebel) and I would show up and there would be a guy there with a 30D or 5D or something. I would feel like puting my camera up. But then, the Supervisor in me came out and I would just do my thing. Alot of times, people would ask later, "Why are your pictures so good? "They are great." That other guys pictures are bland and look like something my mother would shoot. I then realized, in most cases, its the person, not the equipment. I then bought better equipment that would allow me to spend more time shooting, instead of fumbling with equipment. Like many others have said, you dont know that she is really a "Pro". I get people that tell me all the time, "Yeah my brother's a photographer, whattcha shooting with." You then find that their "brother" has NEVER had his "Rebel" off the Auto setting. Then the brother starts asking you for advice. I can definitly see how you would be very nervous. But calm down, do your job. If you spen too much time thinking about her, you will miss "THE" shot everytime. I believe this is what seperates photographers. Some always get the shots that no one knew you were even around and when everyone see's the pictures, they will always say,"That girl is good". "I'm so glad she got that shot" Most people want a photographer at the wedding to give them good clear "Memories" not images that look like they are competeing in an exibition. Dont get me wrong, I like seeing these too, but I hear more women complain about a photographer not getting a specific shot than any saying, "That shot looks plain or dull" I know you can give them the images they are looking for so just do it. Besides, you cant please everyone, just try to please the paying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtk Posted May 19, 2008 Share Posted May 19, 2008 Refuse the business politely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael_darnton1 Posted May 19, 2008 Share Posted May 19, 2008 Looking at your portfolio, I'm not seeing any evidence at all of group and formal shots. If I were you, I'd expect and welcome interference in this aspect, since it's an area that's not as easy as it looks, and you'll probably learn some good things. Otherwise, I bet you won't have much interference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bnyc Posted May 19, 2008 Share Posted May 19, 2008 I'm not a pro or anything approximating a pro, but I think I can still offer some advice on the personal/business aspect of this. I would suggest contacting the sister in advance - as soon as possible, really. What do you have to lose by doing so? Just approach it as a friendly chat - "Hey, I hear you're a professional photographer and may want to take some pictures at the wedding. I'd love to pick your brain and figure out how we can really make it a great experience for the couple." Something along those lines. There are a few possible outcomes. You might have a great talk with her, develop a nice rapport, pick up some tips, learn more about the couple to do a better job satisfying their wants, figure out a way the two of you can do something unique and special, develop a good contact for the future, etc. If so, you will have gained a lot by talking before the wedding. Otherwise, you might have an awkward conversation in which your spider sense warns of wedding day interference, backseat driving, excessive criticism and who knows what else. In that case I think it's better to know in advance - you will have more time to strategize about your wedding day approach, and if it seems severe enough, you will have the opportunity to have a frank discussion with the couple in time to influence the outcome. Or it might be somewhere in between. In which case you'll still be better off having more time to prep and knowing more about what you're walking into. I suspect that a majority of the stress in this kind of situation is the uncertainty. If you can eliminate that uncertainty, you will be able to focus better on the task at hand and not spend your day looking for clues to the sister's motivations or state of mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lauren_macintosh Posted May 19, 2008 Share Posted May 19, 2008 There is always this simple request if presented properly { Please allow me to do my job] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_aceti Posted May 19, 2008 Share Posted May 19, 2008 Might not be that bad. My friend who recently got married wanted to hire me as their photog but the bride had a family photog she wanted to use instead. I ended up doing video for them of the wedding ceremony then assisting the photographer with table photos and posing of group shots. As a team we got some really nice photos. You both have a common goal, to provide the absoute best photos! Try and work together! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surfidaho Posted May 19, 2008 Share Posted May 19, 2008 Howdy! I have never had a problem of this nature. Perhaps it's because most pros follow the Golden Rule. They wouldn't want me taking over their shoot, so they don't take over mine. I never prevent anybody from using any camera, professional grade or otherwise, except during the formals. I actually have a sign that I hang from a light stand that says "Please - No Photography or Video at this Time - Thank You!". It saves me both the time and unpleasantness of being a shutter policeman. Uncle Bobs have been occasionally problematic, but only from the standpoint of "not wanting to pay for my pictures", so they try to shoot over my shoulder during the formals. The sign has cut down on that considerably. As for Sister Pro directing the photographer at her own wedding, that may very well have been a simple case of "Bride-itis". Perhaps she won't do it to you. Nevertheless, you should probably talk to the sister before the wedding and establish a friendly rapport in order to avoid unpleasantness at the wedding. You might actually get some valuable information from her, as well making her an ally instead of an enemy. Later, Paulsky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uhooru Posted May 19, 2008 Share Posted May 19, 2008 Many if not most sizable weddings have more than 1 photog shooting. I was at one Saturday, not even very big. Main dude and his assistant. They both were shooting, and then in certain situations, she held a reflector for him. My nephew's wedding was far bigger and had only 1 photograher assigned. He brought his young son to assist who did not shoot, but held a very interesting light pole whereby a flash was set up on about a 12-15 foot pole to provide overhead ambiant flash while his dad, the photograher used his on camera flash as well. Depending on what side of the floor dad was working on, he'd move his son around. Very interesting. Point is, there's room for two shooters, take it positively and cooperate in a friendly manner unless she becomes negative. She will probably be in and out of the shooting as she is also in the wedding party and she could be a real plus for you as well. It sounds like the groom isn't worried. It could be a really positive experience for you, and if it isn't it could then be a very educational experience for you. Espcially if its true this is your first wedding. That does seem a little strange. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wedding-photography-denver Posted May 19, 2008 Share Posted May 19, 2008 "Thanks, I will bear that in mind". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sudol Posted May 19, 2008 Share Posted May 19, 2008 Amy, I would try to be as diplomatic and professional as possible. Rather than approach the situation as a "my god a professional is standing right there!," say to yourself that this a unique opportunity to have someone experienced give you advice and possible help during the wedding. At my first wedding shoot in March, I had a similar problem. A friend of the groom was using a DSLR and taking pictures left and right of all aspects of the wedding. As this was my first time, i didn't want to be pushy, but when I was next to him, he said to me that this was my show and that HE woudl move out of MY way when I asked him to. The sister of the groom is probably going to be enjoying her brothers wedding day and I highly doubt, she will be annoying you all day long. Chances are, they already told her your situation and its gonna be just fine. Key point for the day and this is most improtant, have fun!!! If you do, your pictures wil turn out just great. Best of Luck. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
achristensen Posted May 20, 2008 Author Share Posted May 20, 2008 The wedding is June 7 and I will report back as to how it goes. Thanks for all your great responses. I enjoyed each one and am so grateful that I have such a vast group of knowledgeable people to ask my most pressing questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinsouthern Posted May 21, 2008 Share Posted May 21, 2008 <i>I don't however think I will call her now, as Nadine said because this could create a problem that may not exist.</i> <p> Nadine said that? Smart lady ;) (I knew I'd read it somewhere! :) <p> Cheers - <a href=http://www.photo.net/photos/colinsouthern>Colin</a> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Michael Posted May 21, 2008 Share Posted May 21, 2008 Sometimes, being caught in the barrage and flow of the copious amounts of well meaning information, attribution, gratitude and thanks are misplaced, mixed up or even omitted. Be thankful, (as I know you are), that attribution went to a mark deserving of it, even if for work in another vista and for another reason entirely. In the end there will be balance: and the goodies will prevail! WW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinsouthern Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 So in other words Bill, we have not succeeded in answering all of her problems. The answers we have found only serve to raise a whole set of new questions. In some ways we feel we are as confused as ever, but we believe we are confused on a higher level and about more important things? :) <P> Cheers - <a href=http://www.photo.net/photos/colinsouthern>Colin</a> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Michael Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 Yes, I too am confused with the set of new questions. But that is of no matter: the point is Amy is much more relaxed about the whole deal and will do a good job, because she is more relaxed. Hey! and we were all part of that positive input! Just like I said, the good will prevail: and Amy certainly is one of the goodies! Go get `em Amy! and do report back, one of the pleasures for me is to here how well things turned out. Cheers, WW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
achristensen Posted June 16, 2008 Author Share Posted June 16, 2008 All, I went into this wedding with a 6 page list of shots and plans. Well, it turned out that we had 40mph winds that day (the site was on top of a field with 3 scrappy trees total and absolutely no protection). Hence, the formals were all to be done indoors (after all, the B's mother didn't spend $60 on her hair for nothing). So all the plans were scrapped and in came plan B. With only one room to choose from, and because it was covered with windows, doors and sliding glass doors, plan B was not particularly extensive. The groom's sister (the professional wedding photog) was generally very standoffish, and several times questioned what I was doing and generally made me feel pretty foolish with her body language. Once I asked her a question about something that was happening with my camera body and she couldn't help me. She had never had that problem before... Strange since she shoots with the same camera. I recognize the fact that I was probably feeling self-conscious and overly sensitive. Anyhow, the day ended well. I ignored her for the most part and had lots of fun shooting that day. Thank you all for your advice! I learn so much here at PN and love the free mentoring I get. William, Thanks for the "Go get 'em." I really needed that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Michael Posted June 17, 2008 Share Posted June 17, 2008 Good. Well Done! You may think you know how much the making those plans helped you: I expect if you double what you think their assistance was you would be closer to the fact. When I am working I do not hear negative `body language` chatter from the wings: although, (for a boy), I do read body language quite well. Most likely this one has set you on a path whereby you too will be able with the next Wedding to focus on the Bride & Groom`s Body Language like a 200mm F2.8 lens, (with the lens hood on), and not let any stray flare in at all! That`s all just part of experience and learning from it: as you implied, it got easier as the day progressed. Thanks so much for coming back . . . Cheers, WW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Michael Posted June 17, 2008 Share Posted June 17, 2008 > Go get `em Amy! and do report back, one of the pleasures for me is to here how well things turned out. < WW I wrote that: I hang my head in shame . . . Write out one thousand times: hear; hear; hear; hear; hear; hear; . . . It must have been a rough day, and lots of chatter from the wings rattled me so much I did not notice ! hear; hear; hear; hear; . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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