How do you cope with low light in churches?

[john_meyer14]

Hi

 

Can you offer some help with low light in church?

 

I've done a few weddings and I find one of the big problems is getting sharp

telephoto images in church with no flash.

 

Often the light is very low, and with my Nikon 18-200 VR (although, generally, a

very useful and convenient lens) and my D200 I can be trying to hand hold things

steady at, say, 200mm-5.6-1/30-1600iso. This often produces soft images and

small subject movement.

 

I've done some tests at home with a monopod, and because the 18-200 has VR I'm

not convinced that using one in church would really give me steadier images.

 

A possible solution might be a fast 70-200/2.8 lens with VR. This would give me

two stops over the 18-200. But such a lens with VR, would cost quite a bit and

would also be quite heavy and cumbersome - I really like the compact 18-200!

 

Even if I put up with the size and went for a cheaper 3rd party 70-200 lens with

NO VR, I'd obviously loose the VR benefit and would, in terms of shutter speed,

probably be back to square one.

 

Is an upgrade to a D300 the answer I wonder? This would give me probably 1.5

more stops of ISO and might make all the difference. Also enable my D200 to be

a useful backup (currently got a Pentax as an backup).

 

There's maybe not an easy answer, but I'd sure appreciate your comments through

your experiences in similar circumstances.

 

Regards

 

John

[cjogo]

I generally shoot at ISO 400 1/4 sec at 4.5 -- Canon 70- 210 f 4 ~~ manual exposure --manual focus > heavy tripod --with a cable release...just wait for the perfect shot . Not more than 6-8 shots during the whole ceremony.

[colinsouthern]

It all comes back to the basics - no one solution, just small cumulative benefits from ...

 

- Using fast glass

 

- Using high ISO

 

- Using Tripod / Monopod

 

- Using IS / VR

 

- Shoot a small burst - often 2nd ot 3rd shots are more sharp

 

- Use a heavier camera.

 

Cheers,

 

Colin

[daverhaas]

John -

 

The 70-200 f2.8 vr is definitely the way to go, however if $1,700 (US) isn't in your budget, then you might want to consider the 50 f1.8 which can be had for under $150.00 in most places. It won't give you the range, but it will give you the speed that the 18-200 lacks. I bought mine for sports and it has transitioned nicely into a great back of the church lens.

 

D300 will give you 1 or 2 more stops. I've shot usable (w/Noise Reduction) at up to 6400 ISO. But again, there's a price $1,799.

 

Tripod / Monopod will help with the camera shake, but will do nothing for subject movement.

 

Dave

[tim_schultz1]

If you choose to photograph ceremonies in churches with low light, you have to get a fast lens. I have the 70-200 (and the 18-200) and while I hated parting with the $1600 for the 70-200, its the cost of doing business. Once I got the lens, I was happy I did. The 18-200 has now been relagated as my back-up lens (I use my 17-55 on the other camera).

[ellis_vener_photography]

Nikon D3 plus faster lenses.

[pete_s.]

John, f/5.6, 1/30s, iso 1600 is common indoor lighting level, EV 5. You just need a standard f/2.8 lens for that. You could shoot f/2.8, 1/125s, iso 1600. You could also step a little closer and use a 85mm f/1.8. For instance f/2, 1/125s, iso 800. Don't need no VR for that.

 

Peter

[david_schilling___chicago_]

Use a tripod and some faster lenses. Also use flash when allowed.

[pete_s.]

Duh, I meant EV 6. Where is the edit function when you need it :-)

[russ_konrad]

First step - get rid of the 18-200VR lens. It is fine for snapshots of the family or to take on a vacation, but it is NOT a lens for professional wedding work.

 

Get yourself a Tamron 17-50 f/2.8 lens and a Nikkor 50mm f/1.8 lens. You will still have money left over after selling the 18-200VR lens and now you will be able to shoot almost any wedding. I find myself using the 17-50 f/2.8 lens for about 80% of all of my shots during a wedding.

 

My partner uses a Tamron 28-105 f/2.8 lens for most of the day. We also use a Nikkor 105 f/2.8 micro lens for detail shots as well as a 10.5 f/2.8 fisheye for some very nice church and dance shots.

 

Please note: ALL of the above lenses are f/2.8 or faster.

[david_schilling___chicago_]

The Tamron 17-50 f/2.8 and the 85mm f/1.8 lenses mentioned above are good, solid, econimical choices.....

[tomweis]

<p>As others have said, use high ISO's and fast glass.</p>

<p>I use: 1D mkIII or a 5D at ISO 1600 - 3200, 28mm f1.8, 50mm f1.4, 85mm f1.8,

100mm f2, 135mm f2.</p><p>Note that most of these lenses are under $400 except

the 135mm f2 which is about $950. Sure the ultra fast 50mm f1.2 and 85mm f1.2 are

great but not that necessary.</p>

[picturesque]

Any and/or all of what Colin said, with the addition of using flash, like David said, if and when allowed. These are the solutions and choices. Take your pick.

 

Some thoughts. I personally rather have lighter, single focal length fast lenses than a heavy zoom. These will give you as much as 3-4 stops over your current zoom. Even with VR, subject movement will intrude upon some shots. Using a tripod isn't the huge pain some people make it out to be. With practice and realization, like C Jo said, that the important, relatively few images necessary from a ceremony can be taken in the quite moments where people aren't moving much. Figure out what you want to do and act accordingly.

 

A note. Tamron just came out with a 70-200mm f2.8 zoom that is lighter and smaller than the Nikon 70-200mm f2.8 VR. No VR, but it is an alternative with a monopod or tripod.

[davidmoore]

Another Canon-specific answer, but generally applicable:

 

5D, ISO 1600, 50mm f1.4, 135mm f2, raw capture with attention to chroma noise in LR. I typically don't worry about luminance noise if the chroma noise is acceptable. I spent a lot of years shooting slow films like Kodachrome and Technical Pan, so holding a camera steady is second nature... it's a good skill to have when a tripod or flash isn't practical. IS is nice, too, but it won't stop subject motion--I prefer fast glass and high ISO.

 

I've heard great things about D300 high ISO performance; should be a big step up from the D200 for low light work.

[picturesque]

Sorry--I meant, "quiet moments".

[wedding-photography-denver]

The lens you are using CAN do the job in an ok way most of the time. However, if you have any subject movement it doesn't quite cut it.

 

F2.8 with Vr would do it, esp. if you have the D300 on the other end of the equation. :-)

 

Another idea would be to use a faster prime on your D200.

[davebell]

Colin's advice is spot-on.

[richard_smedley]

I use the 85mm f/1.2 and 135mm f/2.0 lenses at 1600 ISO (or 3200 ISO if necessary). You really can't stop even hand motion if you use less than 1/100 shutter speed. You need big aperture (2.8 or less) lenses and fast ISO if you want to do a decent job for some low-light churches.

[William Michael]

On the `fast glass` point:

 

IME, It`s gotta be big Churches / Venues, or a photographic style issue, requiring a Professional (constantly) needing around 200mm (or longer) on an APS-C body.

 

In this regard (a Canon example), I would buy the 85F1.8 and the 135F2L in preference to buying the 70 to 200F2.8L, for a Wedding Kit.

 

IMO, the two primes are both a better practical (faster / lighter) and business ($ outlay) decision.

 

WW

[niccoury]

spot metering can help "direct" light.

[picturesque]

Russ--I think Richard was talking about a no flash situation and handholding blur. Using flash and dragging the shutter, you can freeze motion (hand holding and subject), using some pretty slow shutter speeds.

[William Michael]

Yep: I can`t see any hand motion there :)

 

Irrespective of numerous examples pro or against, Russ: if a subject`s hands are moving at x speed then there will be a point at which T = 1/y sec will result in a blur.

 

Of course, I too can pull 1/30 Hand Held and even 1/15, and have during a ceremony.

 

And of course timing the shot has a lot to do with getting a good result, too.

 

However, I would not shoot 1/30, or 1/60 for the processional shot of a very active Flower Girl, and I expect, nor would you: we would both use our professional judgement?

 

I think it was a general point that was being made: 1/100 is a pretty safe starting point, for most situations, during the ceremony, sans flash.

 

The only mistake was, the way the sentence was phrased.

 

I guess there was another reason for making comment: in other threads (um 4 hours for $200 . . .um . . . check the sources) I am right behind you in jumping in hard: but I think this time it was a bit out of context.

 

My opinion only . . .

 

WW

[luisarguelles]

Leica M, Tri-X at 800 ASA and a set of Summiluxes :)

[surfidaho]

Howdy!

 

Fast glass and a tripod.

 

I use flash to stop movement during the processional, but otherwise I shoot ambient during the ceremony, and switch to flash for the recessional. It helps to have two cameras, one set up for ambient,. and the other set up for flash, so that you can switch quickly.

 

Speaking of the processional, I don't think anybody mentioned zone focus yet. It doesn't do any good to stop the motion if your subject is out of focus when you take the shot. Don't rely on AI Servo.

 

If you don't know how to zone focus, it's pretty simple. It's been covered on this forum before, but for some reason I cannot get the thread to come up right now. Here it is in case you have better luck than I:

 

http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00Lhob

 

Later,

 

Paulsky

[markonestudios]

Colin sums it up nicely. What i would add is this: if you are going to shoot weddings professionally, you need to invest accordingly. Even if it means hiring the fast glass for weddings until you can afford it, or perhaps even buy it on a monthly payment scheme if possible...