So here is my problem in its entirety

[jim_gardner4]

For 20 years I have been developing films from many different 35mm and medium

format cameras using ID11 1+1 @20degrees C in either a stainless or plastic tank.

Unfortunately in the last six months it has all gone wrong. Whether I am

developing 35mm, 120 or 5x4 film it seems now I can hardly develop a film without

terrible uneven development.

 

I have found that with 35mm and 120, the film shows higher densities along both

edges. It has been said that this could be because I may be ?swirling? the tank

causing the solution to go round the edges of the film faster than the centre and

so cause increased development to the edges. I don?t believe I am doing anything

different from hundreds of other films and so cant see any reason why this

should be the case, however I have also tried other agitation methods to stop this

but the problem remains. A plastic Patterson type tank using a rod to turn the film

spiral does help but it could be better.

 

90% of the film I use is Ilford Delta 100 and I usually develop it as follows;

11 mins (unless the shot has very little or very high contrast) in Ilford ID11 mixed

1+1 at 20 degrees C, 30 seconds in Ilford Ilfostop mixed 1+ 19, about 4 minutes in

Ilford rapid fix mixed 1 + 4 all at 20 degrees, followed by 10 minutes water wash

also at 20 degrees with a few ml of wash agent in the last wash. I always tap

the tank to remove bubbles and agitate for 10 secs every minute.

 

As I mentioned, agitation has been the same for years although I have now tried

turning the tank over top to bottom, figure eight rotations, faster and slower

agitations, longer, shorter and 5 secs every 30 secs. None of this seems to make

any difference. I have also tried Ilfosol S film dev and a Kodak stop; same results.

Although I do not pre soak films, I never have done so cant see why that would

be needed now if it wasn?t for the last 19 years.

 

I did 2 test shots yesterday of a plain magnolia painted wall which is of totally

uniform tone. These negs were developed in a Combi-plan tank using Ilfosol S

mixed 1+9 for 6 mins and the result was the most "blotchey" piece of film I have

ever seen with probably about a 3 or 4 stop range in it!

If any one has any ideas I would love to hear them.

Many thanks.<div></div>

[sattler123]

Jim, I am not an expert in B&W film development, although I do develop all my films by myself. The one variable you have not changed is the fixer - why not try another fixer just to make sure that's not the problem you are having. Did you recently move and the water is different? I cannot imagine it has to do with your agitation technique - there is just no way that all of a sudden this would happen. Does this happen with the same type of film - did you try another film to see if you just get a bad batch? That's really all the advice I can give you - I feel for you - these things can drive one absolutely nuts.

[jim_gardner4]

Juergen, I havent moved and the water is from the same taps in my darkroom. Film is all the same make but from different batches, some 12 months older than others. I will try a different make fixer although I have used new bottles from a different outlet. I am wondering if the water hardness could have changed somehow and may buy some bottled water to try. Thanks for your input, Jim.

[rodeo_joe1]

I tend to agree that it could be stale fixer that's your problem Jim. Try fixing one of your bad pieces of film again and see if the blotchiness disappears.

 

Stale film doesn't usually look like the example you've shown us.

[john_elder1]

Use all fresh chemnicals. I have never had the problem you are having(thank god). I use a 5 roll Paterson tank, agitate 5 seconds every 30 seconds,. When I agitate, I turn , invert ,the tank top to bottom and while inverted do a quarter turn of the tank. One inversion per second for 5 seconds. I always use distilled water for the developer and for the final wash. One of the reasons to use distilled water is that no matter where you go, Siberia or Florida, your development time will be the same when using distilled water for a given film. If you use tap water, your development will vary from place to place. Good luck!

[ronald_moravec1]

What you have is an agitation problem, ie lack there of.

 

With your stainless tank, limit the volumn to what it takes to cover the reel, probably 8 oz. The developer needs room to move and it can not with a full tank. You need the movement to remove the developer byproducts from the film and the edges clear faster than the center.

 

Same with the plastic. The twist stick is for the first agitation immediately after adding developer. There after invert. Patterson instructions . Works for me.

 

Fixer seems prone to this more than developer specially if not totally fresh. I roll the tank horizontally about the normal vertical axis half way through or lift and remove the film several times. If you have increased density between the frames, and refixing cures it, this is the solution.

You can not overagitate in the fix as it is a process that goes to completion.

 

Slow gentle agitation to stop flow marks is a myth. The slower you go the more inefficient the agittion and more problems you will have.

 

If your process used to work, you changed something, perhaps something very subtle that you thought would not make a difference and now you do not remember it, and there is now a problem you can`t fix. Start over from scratch.

 

The Paterson tank with all the empty space in the cap can not cause a problem when you invert. Using a two reel stainless will do the same thing if you load only the bottom reel and use only that much solution, 8 oz

[russ_kerlin]

Yes, something is different. Despite what you say, I tend to think it is either agitation or something is wrong with the developer. I would rule out the fixer and water quality. Neither would create this effect.

 

Just for grins, I would eliminate your stop bath and try a water stop. I don't think that is it, but see what happens. It is almost as if you are getting incomplete development in spots and then the stop "halts" it midway. I would also check your thermometer. Is it reading correctly and is the solution temperature unifom?

 

Finally make sure you have fresh developer and that the powder or concentrate is not old. Powder should be OK, but concentrate can go bad, especially if it has been opened.

 

Keep us posted...please!

[brucecahn]

If you put the wash agent in while the film is on the reels it eventually builds up and leaves a residue. Unspool the film and pull it back and forth through a beaker of photoflo a few times. To check if that is the problem, buy a new reel. Another possibility is that the spinning agitation is causing overdevelopment at the edge. You can agitate a Paterson tank by inverting once and rapping it a few times to loosen bubbles. Inverting 5 times as Kodak recommends causes problems like you are having.

[doremus_scudder1]

Jim,

 

The answers here seem to be contradictory, and inconclusive. So I am chiming in to add weight to Ron's advice.

 

Lack of agitation is what I would diagnose as well. I had a similar problem many years ago when I was first working with 120 film. I ended up exposing roll after roll under the enlarger and then developing with different agitation schemes. The only thing that yielded smooth negatives was to really shake the hell out of the tank when developing.

 

My advice, like Ron's is:

 

1. Use just enough developer to cover the reels. Do not fill the tank completely.

 

2: Agitate hard for 30 seconds, turning the tank simultaneously 180 degrees along both the horizontal and vertical axes (the so-called "torus" motion), as well as rapping it on the countertop a time or two to dislodge bubbles. One complete inversion cycle per second (from position A to upside-down and back again) was about right for me. I used both hands, one on each end of the tank, spinning and inverting at the same time so that a different spot on the tank ended up facing me after each inversion cycle.

 

3. Subsequent agitations as above for 5-10 seconds every 30 seconds. (You can try ten seconds every minute after you have solved your problem and see if that works for you too).

 

To be on the safe side, do a clip test of you fix. Delta 100 should clear in about 1 minute in fresh fixer. If problems persist, pre-soak for 3-5 minutes and see if that helps.

 

If you end up increasing the frequency and intensity of your agitation, you will probably have to reduce the developing time a bit. Start with 10% and see if that works.

 

Keep at it. You will find the solution.

 

Good luck,

 

Doremus Scudder

 

www.DoremusScudder.com

[chris_waller]

Since you've been processing film for twenty-odd years, I'm ruling out any change in your method. You say it started 6 months ago for no apparent reason. I'm going to suggest that something in your domestic water supply has changed, i.e. alkalinity, acidity, metal content or something. Try using pure water from a known source to mix your chemistry and try another roll of film.

 

A scan of the negs, including rebates, would be useful.

[grain]

The finest name in plastic tanks that suck. They do not agitate evenly and they retain

traces of old chemistry in the grooves even after repeated rinsing.

End your headaches and go with stainless steel tanks and spiral reels.

[jim_gardner4]

There are a lot of suggestions above and I will be re reading them all shortly although I think I can rule out some of the possibilities; I kept the last mix of fixer that I used and have just tested it. It took 30 seconds to make a piece of film transparent and another 30 secs to clear it completely. I have used stainless tanks for 35mm and 120 for ages but the problem is not as bad when I went back to plastic reels and tanks. The 5x4 tank is plastic and new so dont think it could be contaminated. I have tried new developer,stop, fixer and wash agent from unopened bottles or packets. I cant do anything for a day or two now but the next thing I will try is taking all my gear to a mates in another area to see if his water makes any difference or get someone to develop one of my films in my dark room to see if their techniques make any difference. There is no increased density between frames and I have attached a scan for you to look at. The 6x4.5 negs were taken last year and print very well, the 35mm were taken this March, they are the sea and beach and although its not too obvious on the scan, a print really shows the uneven density.Thanks all for your help so far, please keep it coming and watch this space.<div></div>

[jim_gardner4]

Scan of 5x4 neg and its positive. Thin cloud in a VERY even toned sky. I know sky isnt ideal to test on but the positive is so bad its worth looking at.<div></div>

[jim_gardner4]

ok so here is its positive<div></div>

[rodeo_joe1]

Overfilling the tank can result in a lack of agitation and uneven devlopment. Inversion agitation needs an airspace, otherwise the solution just moves with the tank and doesn't mix properly.

 

You haven't suddenly decided to use more chemicals than you used to, have you Jim? Or changed your measuring cylinder? Or got a smaller tank?

[dbcooper]

Have you tried processing any unexposed film? That would at least eliminate (or confirm) the possibility of film contamination / bad film.

 

You might ring up the water company and see if they've changed anything in their filtration or treatment that would coincide with your timeline of the onset of the problem.

 

You might also email Ilford with the information you've presented here and see if their technical support department has anything to offer in the way of identifying the problem.

[chris_waller]

I've used Paterson plastic tanks and reels for 25 years without a problem. I don't know the Combi-plan tank so can't comment on it. Paterson tanks, used correctly, allow rapid filling and emptying and good agitation.

 

I remember a case here in the UK when a water company accidentally put massive amounts of aluminium chloride coagulant in the water with disastrous results. As mooted above, could your water supply company have changed its treatment regime?

[jim_gardner4]

I will ring the water company on Tuesday and ask if they have done anything and also try some purified water. Will post results on completion.

[eric rose]

Give an exposed roll to a buddy to develop. If there is no problem then you know it's something happening in your darkroom. If the problem is still there then maybe all your film got exposed to some type of x-rays or something.

[j.w.]

Jim:

 

I'm confused (redundant statement, perhaps); you're getting uneven development with multiple film formats in differing tank systems? And you've been doing this for ~20 years prior with no problems?

 

First, the advice regarding agitation is extremely important, but as for the 5x4 image you posted, why not try and eliminate the Combi-Tank as a problem by tray developing in at least a 5x7 sized tray? Ensure good agitation.

 

I still find it interesting that you're seeing this problem using both roll and sheet films in differing tank systems. Points back to some commonality, like chemicals or water perhaps. I don't expect stop bath to be the issue. And incomplete fixing leaves a kind of silvery effect to the film that can be easily seen in reflected light, and is easy to clear by additional fixing in room light.

 

I've never used ID-11 (or Delta 100); I'm an HC-110/Rodinol/FP-4+/HP-5+ man myself, so I don't know if you've happened upon a bad batch. Try changing developers to something else like HC-110, dilution B for starters, just to see if you can get an even development.

[jim_gardner4]

The tests go on. I have now totally ruled out bad water and stop. I have checked thermometer against 3 others and they all read the same. I attach a 5x4 neg taken today and developed in a tray. Trays seem to be better than tanks but obviously only for sheet film. The neg attached, received 30 secs of aggitation every 60 secs. I would normally consider this excesive but results are slightly better than 10 or 20 secs every 60 secs. I am rapidly running out of things to try now. Any more ideas?<div></div>

[jim_gardner4]

Joe,

Yeah,20 years and no problem and its the same with all formats and tanks. I tried fresh ID11 powder from an unopened packet and also tried Ilfosol S dev, I have tried plain water as a stop bath, new fixer and using bottled water. Havnt tried a pre soak but I seem to remember Ilford advise against it for some reason.