david brown Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 Matt and Bob you have very good points and I do agree, however I am answering in the context I see in the original question. Wrong to see your work as great, No it is not wrong! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randy_santos Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 I love what I do, I truly enjoy it, it gives me great prsonal fullfilment. I wake up early everyday with a smile to start work and still work all night. Does that make my work great? I don't know- It makes it great for me. I don't rely on others opinions of greatness to validate what I do. I just do it an throw it out there. Define greatness, define success. I already have in my mind and perhaps it has mothing to do with your definition of greatness or success. My work has allowed me to provide a womderful living for my family solely through my own creative self expression. Yes , that is great! How could it be wrong to see it any other way??? See a small piece of the pie: http://www.randysantos.blogspot.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aplumpton Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 Wrong to see your own work as great? No, if it does something for you. But the only valuable opinion, now or in the future, is the response of others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
don_e Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 "But the only valuable opinion...is the response of others." What about your own? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aplumpton Posted March 7, 2008 Share Posted March 7, 2008 Don, I think we all consider some of our own work as impressive. I guess that if we didn't, we likely wouldn't be doing it. Hopefully the person believing his work is great is not also one of those who is always telling everyone of his own auto-critique. Humility is often overtaken by enthusiasm (and more) in communicating one's work, while perhaps the photo itself is the better communicator of greatness or not. Are we not in any case normally empowered by the thoughts that I can do better or I can discover something new? It is interesting how others see our work (e.g., those seeing a work in person, or in a more studied manner than a computer "picture bite"). What we often consider great never sells, or impresses, and what we consider not so good or simply cliche (sorry, can't put the accent here) is often considered great by the viewer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dickhilker Posted March 7, 2008 Share Posted March 7, 2008 If we've worked hard and are reasonably satisfied with the results, and if others like what we've done, I feel it's healthy to take a bit of pride in our accomplishments. However, if we start to feel that what we're doing is truly great, I also feel there may be a tendency to slack off and become less self-critical, to the detriment of our work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobtodrick Posted March 7, 2008 Share Posted March 7, 2008 I think that it boils down to overuse and thus the ruining of a perfectly good word (great). My work isn't great...I have no self-delusions about that. It's good, darned good at times...but great...no. And Randy...you may consider it 'great' that your photography supports your family...in essence though you are doing (supporting said family) what 90% of the worlds population does...works every day to put food on the table. I read a book a few years ago (non-fiction) about a father in Sarajevo who every day had to cross a bridge that was covered by snipers. The snipers had a fairly high success rate...killed a lot of people...but this father braved the crossing everyday to go to work at his little bakery so he could support his family. He was great (IMO). Me driving to work to my office...or you going to your studio...not so much (great). So lets use 'great' for all our photos. Lets say it's great because we do what literally billions do every day...go to work. And for those that are trully outstanding...well I guess they are super-duper utterly fantastic. But pretty soon we'll all be calling our photos 'super-duper utterly fantastic'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobtodrick Posted March 7, 2008 Share Posted March 7, 2008 One point that is removed from the thread as it pertains to photography. Many people today will tell you they don't know what has become of people in the last 10 years (particularily in the west). Road rage...people who cut in line at the supermarket...impatientence with a store clerk bordering on ignorance...all of it. Personally I see it starting with exactly what we are talking about here. Through the media and starting in particular with the 'me generation' 70's thinking we've been told that we are all capable of such 'greatness'...that our rights to express our individuality is paramount that we have, to a large degree become a society of self absorbed, thoughtless boors... If I or my work is 'great'...just what do you call someone like Mother Theresa? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aplumpton Posted March 7, 2008 Share Posted March 7, 2008 What's the matter with good or very good? Less controversial and more useful in discussing images we like. "Great" or "of unequalled quality" can probably be discerned with some confidence in 100 to 500 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJHingel Posted March 7, 2008 Share Posted March 7, 2008 Spencer, there is nothing wrong in seeing your own work as great, but it might not be very helpful. I think it is always more promising if you can see the limits of your own work. Next shots might be even better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon_shiu Posted March 7, 2008 Share Posted March 7, 2008 I don't think it is important to consider the work as great. The important thing is to love the image. Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randy_santos Posted March 7, 2008 Share Posted March 7, 2008 Gee Bob- I guess you completely missed the point of my whole post. I don't think I'm great, I don't tout my work as great. But my work is great "FOR ME". Clearly you don't understand that concept so why should I even bother explaining, I certainly don't seek your approval of what I do. You seem a little bitter so keep me out of your conversation. Perhaps you just need to find something that is "great" for you. Sorry to hear about the baker and the sniper bridge. Tell you what I'd do, I'd probably move my business to the other side of the river and avoid crossing that bridge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobtodrick Posted March 7, 2008 Share Posted March 7, 2008 Randy...read the original post at the head of this thread. The fact that you've responded as you did led me to believe that you agree with the idea therein expressed. I'm glad you get such a great feeling of accomplishement...I kinda look at it as you're doing more or less what everybody does on the planet...if that makes it great for you, so-be-it. Going out and providing for your family...even if 'soley through your self expression'...to me is the basic tenant of what everyone should strive for. In my opinion (and I have a right to it)...one has to go a step beyond the basic before it become great, even on a personal level...otherwise the truly great ceases to have meaning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randy_santos Posted March 7, 2008 Share Posted March 7, 2008 No hard feelings on this end. I made my home on the sunny side of the street, Good Luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allen Herbert Posted March 7, 2008 Share Posted March 7, 2008 There I go, spend my money on a nice cam; spend my time getting out there.... Then some dudes tell me my photos are not great....cause I have to be dead for a decent period of time or have won a popularity contest or something. Then they tell me to eat lots of humble pie cause it will be good for me...sort of "please sir can i have some more". Listen on dudes my work is "Great" live with it.... Why, because I say so.....enough said. Jeez,talk about a load of fading fairies on a christmas tree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allen Herbert Posted March 7, 2008 Share Posted March 7, 2008 Put the word "great" back into your photo.....no need to snivel and whimper about your work.....or, spend your time fawning over yesterdays men. A great photo.......<div></div> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobtodrick Posted March 7, 2008 Share Posted March 7, 2008 I'm happy for you Randy...and I really mean that. I quess I prefer to say I am content...I've actually got a pretty good life, much of it due to photography...I just find I hesitate at the 'great' term. I think it is a personal issue, for me. I've been on the planet longer than I care to admit and I have found that in the last 10-20 years rudeness has increased, and compassion for ones fellow man seems to have decreased. Or so it seems. And part of this is that we've come to believe in 'individuality' so strongly, that we've forgotten that the 'other guy' is just as important as we are. It may just be a case of semantics, but when I hear someone saying 'they're photos are great', or 'they're life is great'...they are setting themselves as above the average...above their neighbour. Maybe I just got up on the wrong side of the bed this morning... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allen Herbert Posted March 7, 2008 Share Posted March 7, 2008 , but when I hear someone saying 'they're photos are great', or 'they're life is great'...they are setting themselves as above the average Nothing wrong with a bit of self-believe and confidence, Bob. Don't you think having a benchmark as average is pretty boring...unless of course you have Karl Marx believes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allen Herbert Posted March 7, 2008 Share Posted March 7, 2008 Beliefs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobtodrick Posted March 7, 2008 Share Posted March 7, 2008 Well Allen, everytime I get cut off in traffic by some bozo who figures he is just so damned important, with so much self confidence that he should be at the stop light first...the option to your so called boring life would be my fantasy of an Exocet missile up his exhaust pipe. It's that belief that we are buying into...lots of self belief and confidence, that seems to be translating, not into something positive, but as arrogance and self centered-ness. Sorry Allen, but if you think that's a good thing...as the old song says "stop the world, I want to get off". Gotta admit though, this is an interesting thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aplumpton Posted March 7, 2008 Share Posted March 7, 2008 Don't know about interesting Allen, but my Quebecois patois friends would call the more pompous, self-important navel gazing, just a lot of "Boulechitte". "A spade is a spade....". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
don_e Posted March 7, 2008 Share Posted March 7, 2008 Arthur, it was the word "only" that caught my attention. I believe all photographers want and need a response to their work. Photography is not a performance art; nobody would be eager to watch me make an exposure or develop it. One method of performance is to exhibit our photos. But I can't give an all-determining weight of opinion to the viewers regarding the quality of the photographs exhibited. I'll stipulate to it being a major concern for those making a career (or those hoping to) in photography. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allen Herbert Posted March 7, 2008 Share Posted March 7, 2008 who figures he is just so damned important, with so much self confidence Why would self-confidence equate to damned importance? Don't know about interesting Allen, but my Quebecois patois friends would call the more pompous, self-important navel gazing Why would self-confidence equate to pompous navel gazing? Surely self confidence and belief in what you are doing is a must for any endeavour in life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randy_santos Posted March 7, 2008 Share Posted March 7, 2008 "Surely self confidence and belief in what you are doing is a must for any endeavour in life." True dat At least any endeavor worthwhile. An old saying I use all the time is,"The easiest thing in the world to sell is something you believe in." I know in some circles here "sell" is a dirty word. But that's their problem. Everyone sells something everyday. Better to believe in and sell yourself. What else do you really have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aplumpton Posted March 7, 2008 Share Posted March 7, 2008 "Surely self confidence and belief in what you are doing is a must for any endeavour in life." "Put the word "great" back into your photo.....no need to snivel and whimper about your work" Allen, I agree 100% with the former statement, but being humble is not represented by the latter statement. Many great photographers were humble, not because they did not believe in their work but likely because as artists they realised the extent of the challenge before them and had very high criteria of acceptance. Don, you are right about my use of the word "only" (...valuable opinion). It is not the exclusive basis for appreciation of the work of someone. Each photographer has the right and privilege of judging his or her own work. And we have to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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