Making pictures, minding one's own business

[jgalyon]

In all fairness... here's an instance of Federal security officers doing their jobs in a professional and courteous manner. i was on the street taking pictures in my hometown of Chattanooga, Tn., near the Federal Courthouse and wanted to take some architectural shots of the building. recognizing that there may be laws that limit or prohibit my doing so, i approached the security guards, introduced myself and offered them a business card. not only were these gentlemen...true gentlemen, but they were a pleasure to speak with and offered a suggestion that i would have never considered inquiring about. the suggestion was that i make an appointment to speak with one of the judges and ask permission to photograph the main court room. they related that on the few occassions (they were aware of) in which photographers had actually made such a request, that they knew of no one who had been denied. they described the courtroom as being an incredibly beautiful room with massive hand painted murals on the walls...although they did not know the artist who had painted them. being a bit of a history buff i was a bit blown away by the fact that this is the courtroom where Jimmy Hoffa was finally convicted of a crime and sentenced to Federal jail time. as well, 9-11 hijacker Mohamed Atta faced a hearing in this courtroom after a routine traffic stop revealed "issues" with his visa. Unfortunately he was released, only to have resurface in the area shortly thereafter...taking a plane trip over the area in which he asked suspicious questions about the Sequoyah Nuclear Plant (which is 2 miles from my home)...all scant months before 9-11)

 

But anyway... here's an example of Federal security officers doing their job, not only without intimidation...but going out of their way to just be good people!

[jgalyon]

In all fairness... here's an instance of Federal security officers doing their jobs in a professional and courteous manner. i was on the street taking pictures in my hometown of Chattanooga, Tn., near the Federal Courthouse and wanted to take some architectural shots of the building. recognizing that there may be laws that limit or prohibit my doing so, i approached the security guards, introduced myself and offered them a business card. not only were these gentlemen...true gentlemen, but they were a pleasure to speak with and offered a suggestion that i would have never considered inquiring about. the suggestion was that i make an appointment to speak with one of the judges and ask permission to photograph the main court room. they related that on the few occassions (they were aware of) in which photographers had actually made such a request, that they knew of no one who had been denied. they described the courtroom as being an incredibly beautiful room with massive hand painted murals on the walls...although they did not know the artist who had painted them. being a bit of a history buff i was a bit blown away by the fact that this is the courtroom where Jimmy Hoffa was finally convicted of a crime and sentenced to Federal jail time. as well, 9-11 hijacker Mohamed Atta faced a hearing in this courtroom after a routine traffic stop revealed "issues" with his visa. Unfortunately he was released, only to have resurface in the area shortly thereafter...taking a plane trip over the area in which he asked suspicious questions about the Sequoyah Nuclear Plant (which is 2 miles from my home)...all scant months before 9-11)

 

But anyway... here's an example of Federal security officers doing their job, not only without intimidation...but going out of their way to just be good people!

[jgalyon]

apologies for the inadvertant double-post...

[sprouty]

Every time time you are approached by someone who is wondering what you are doing is an opportunity to show them that engaging with a stranger doesn't have to be a negative experience.

[mr. sullen]

The only experience I had with the law concerning photography was a good one. I was taking photos at a lake. There were people fishing and I guess the cops come around once in a while and check for fishing licenses. I was a little surprised to see cops doing this as I thought it was only wildlife enforcement types that did that.

 

Anyway as she got to me she just walked by with a smile and said hello and went on to check on some other fisherman. She got back to her car and pulled out to leave when she stopped by me and started to talk to me about other interesting areas to shoot that I may have not been aware of. We talked for about five minutes or so about it and I thanked for her info and she went on her way.

 

Of course this was just a lake and not a so called "sensitive area." How I feel about cops is the way I feel about all people and that is most people are good. Some, well you know. I suppose I would do the same thing Robert Shults did in his situation. Every stuiation is different. I think one important thing to remeber in situations like these is that these people have a boss and if their is a problem ask to see them. If it's an institutional thing well then you have to work to change it or just forget about it.

 

On another note I once had a neighbor think I was a cop. I was taking photos at night, on my property, and the flash caught their attention. How one could think this is beyond me, I would have to be one stupid cop to be right out in the open using a flash. One came over and asked what I was doing. I said I am taking photos. He said his girlfriend thought I was the cops taking photos of them. We laughed about it and he went back to inform her of her paranoia.

[anthony_brookes5]

The rule in the UK is that you can photograph anything from public property but you cannot enter private property to shoot private or public activities without the owners permission. This is one reason why the anti hunting activists cannot film fox kills because they always take place on private land.

[tholte]

Dave and John, Canada needs more people so I am sure they will give you a nice and warm welcome.

[fredrik_steffen]

This thread is too long and has too many complicated and unknown words.

 

I've never had any problems with anyone approaching me asking what I'm up to, not police or other civilians. Could it be because I'm an young and innocent teenager? ;)

[terrygilroy]

I can recommend Scotland, great scenery too!

[m_barbu1]

<p>Interesting experiences and thoughts, all around. :)</p>

 

<p>John, your interaction with that old man is textbook Dale Carnegie!</p>

 

<p>William, I don't know the first thing about you, so please allow me to apologize in advance if this is irrelevant or offensive. :) Have you considered examining your appearance? Despite all the wisdom of elders of yore, people (as a whole) tend to judge books by their cover (and law enforcement tends to profile). True, these are generalizations and there are always exceptions to every rule. However, first impressions <i>do</i> matter! To the extent that it doesn't hinder your photography, consider "upgrading" your personal appearance. If you are wearing sneakers and jeans, consider khakis and casual shoes. If you are wearing khakis and casual shoes, consider dressier versions of both, without being showy. If someone approaches you, smile, and offer a greeting! You'd be surprised how well this disarms people. Try it on a stranger. Say nothing. Just smile a genuine smile, and see if it's not returned! Unless they are genuinely in a bad mood - and sometimes even if they are - they won't be able to help themselves, but smile.</p><p>The same goes for your equipment, car (if you drive a beater, don't work next to it), etc. With the exception of "gangsta bling", if you look like you aren't in need of money, people will tend to not think of you as being up to no good.</p><p>Sure, there are instances where this won't matter. I was harassed in Arizona, once, by a paranoid man who thought I was photographing him. The police straightened it out (be sure to have a charged cell phone on you!), but to him, it didn't matter that I was well dressed. He was sure I was photographing him. I was also harassed in Boston, when photographing one of the T (train) stations. There was no sign posted that photography was not allowed, but that didn't stop the train conductor from flashing lights to blind me, nor another transit employee from telling me I wasn't allowed to take video (I guess he didn't realize I had an SLR). Nevertheless, my experience has been that if I am in an expensive car (you can rent them) or dressed well, I am treated very differently by the police and most officials than if I am in jeans and sneakers, even without me saying one word. It's the difference between "sir" and "hey, you!" Incidentally, it's important that if you "upgrade" your car, you do the same for your appearance, else you might be mistaken for having obtained said car illicitly.</p>

 

<p>Also, I'm not sure how relevant experiences from San Francisco are, when discussing the topic of infringement of civil liberties. It's well-known that SF is one of the <a href="http://www.govpro.com/News/Article/31439/">most <strike>liberal</strike>"progressive"cities in the US</a>. This has the effect of the city espousing the concept of "freedom" relatively wholesale. I'd say it's safe to say you'd be able to get away with a lot more in San Francisco, than say, Plano, TX.</p>

[jgalyon]

Tim, it's the warm and friendly people in the U.S. like you and Brad that make me want to stay a bit longer! Just add Dixon into the mix and you'll have the complete trio of those who ganged on me the time I was the one bringing up this subject!

[arnjonphoto]

If you want a clear, concise, non legal explainaton about photographer's Legal Rights to take photographs, go to: www.kantor.com and click on the box on the left side of the page that says Photographer's Legal Rights. Andrew Kantor is not a lawyer, he is a technical writer and he has written a short, clear brief on photographer's rights that everyone can understand and use when they are out photographing in public and private places. He explains the difference between your right to take a photographs in public and private locations. Also, he explains when you can and cannot take pictures of people or what type of photographs you can and cannot publish. This article should be read if you want to know your legal rights to take photos in the USA.

[jgalyon]

Mr.Kaplan, after reading your bio and viewing your fine photographs I want to say that it is an honor to have you among us! I look forward to spending some time in your portfolio and would like to speak to you, perhaps by e-mail ...that is, if you have the time and don't mind spending a bit of it on a hack photographer! :)

[tri-x1]

And when the next terrorist attack occurs, some of the same people claiming we're close to fascism will be demanding to know why security wasn't tighter.

[jgalyon]

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety"- Benjamin Franklin.

 

Wayne...Franklin had people like you in mind with he wrote that bit of wisdom. Keep drinking the kool-aid...see where it gets you.

[jgalyon]

I'll keep my freedom and take my chances with the terrorists.

[sprouty]

"Terror Alert Red" Exactly what does that mean to you Wayne? How do you alter your daily activites when you hear that broadcast or see it displayed? And more importantly how does it make you think, feel, and behave towards your fellow countrymen?

 

Whenever a government has the populus fearing and hating each other police action is easier to enforce.

[gordonjb]

Tim;

 

Who told you we need more people in Canada ?

In my neighbourhood we already have too many people and I'm having no luck at all convincing any of them to move down to the US.

 

In over 30 years of walking around with a camera on either side of the border as well as most places in the E.U. , Central America etc. I have yet to be hassled for pointing my camera at anything.

[jgalyon]

Gordon, does that mean I'm not welcome in Canada afterall? :)

[gordonjb]

Hey John ; I don't live in Nova Scotia so you're going have to take that up with those folks. I've spent a lot of time on the East coast. Newfoundland is my favourite province. The scenery is spectacular and the people are the warmest I have met anywhere. If you move to Nova Scotia, NFLD. is only a ferry ride away.

[john_h.1]

"This thread... ...has too many complicated and unknown words."

 

I hope you don't run in to someone asking you questions about why you are taking pictures somewhere. You may not understand what they are saying and then you will seem even more suspicious to them.

[david j.lee]

i they could just have catched those terrorist taking photographs of the twin towers in

time.....

[ted_marcus1]

Regarding police officers and rent-a-cops, I think the problem is that they want to be heroes in the War on Terror, but actual terrorists are unfortunately very few and far between. So they go after ordinary people whenever they can, possibly in the hope that they might uncover something that will provide the Big Break for their careers. Good cops probably don't do that, but as with any profession the bad ones outnumber the competent and professional ones.

 

I haven't (yet) been hassled by professional Terror Warriors, but I have noticed an increasing number of ordinary people who see me, a man photographing something that's clearly not my wife or kids, and feel some sort of obligation to come up to me and demand to know what I'm photographing and why. At first I was offended, but now I just give them as much warmth, sweetness, and good cheer as I can manage. I tell them that we all need to be extra vigilant in Wartime, offer to let them look through the viewfinder, and hand them a card with my Web site on it. This doesn't happen often-- as a male solo traveler in the United States, couples and families normally prefer to stay as far away from me as possible. But it seems to be happening with increasing frequency. If Bush and Cheney's intent is to transform the free and open American society into one completely saturated with fear, they seem to be succeeding spectacularly.

[pat trent]

I've been an avid photographer for over 40 years, and I also happen to be a retired attorney. Recently I haven't had any unpleasant experiences when photographing in public, either here in California or in other states.

 

Although my experiences with law enforcement have been nearly always positive, there was an incident that occurred when I was photographing several years ago in Oregon.

 

My husband and I were on vacation and traveling by car from the Bay Area in California to Washington State. As we headed up an Oregon highway on a beautiful Sunday morning, we came to one of those "Scenic Vista" signs. There was an access road leading off the highway down an incline to a paved parking and picnic area about 100 yards away. In addition to picnic tables and benches, there was also a little restroom kiosk and a drinking fountain. Beyond that paved area there was indeed a beautiful vista. So we parked the car, and spent about 20-30 minutes taking photos. There were several other people there also, including families with young children.

 

As we headed up the access road to the highway, to continue on our journey to Washington, we saw that two sheriff's cars had parked at the top of it, side by side, thus blocking the way onto the highway. We were the first car next to them. One of the deputies walked over to our driver's side window and politely told my husband that there was a bicycle race in progress now and we could not get back on the highway, and we could be detained for up to two hours! By this time a few other vehicles with tourists/visitors had fallen into line behind us.

 

At that point I gave the deputy my business card, informed him that I was an attorney and that he should call his district attorney, because what they were doing met all of the required elements for a lawsuit against that county for "False Imprisonment." This was especially true since there had been no signs, nor any warning whatsoever, that anyone entering the scenic vista area that morning would be trapped there. I also added, very politely, that I was on vacation because I was being rewarded by my law firm, which was very grateful to me at that point in time, and I was quite certain that my partners would have no problem filing a Class Action lawsuit the next day on my own behalf and on behalf of everyone who was being wrongfully detained--unless the deputies could find a way to immediately allow everyone who wanted to leave to do so. He went back to his vehicle, conferred with the deputies in the other vehicle, and got on his radio.

 

Meanwhile some of the people behind us had left their vehicles and walked up to ours to ask what was going on. I told them and added that I was reasonably confident that we would all be leaving soon and it would be best for them to get back in their vehicles and not challenge the deputies in any way. One of them actually apologized to me for all the lawyer jokes he'd repeated in the past! I could only laugh and say, "No problem, some of my colleagues can be a real pain."

 

A few minutes later, the deputy that had been talking to us approached our car again and said they were arranging to escort all of us out of the parking area, single file. He then went to each of the other cars--and by this time, everyone in that scenic vista area had lined up to leave--and told them to stay in a single line and they would be escorted out "caravan style." As this was a 4-lane highway, one sheriff's cars led the southbound group and the other led our northbound group slowly out of the area. They used the two lanes nearest the access road, leaving the two farthest lanes for the bicyclers, all of whom were heading North. Our northbound group was escorted to a junction at which the bicyclers turned off onto another highway, and from the presence of by-standers along that side highway, it was clearly part of their original itinerary. I can only conclude that the southbound group lost their escort once they passed the last-in-line bicycler participating in the race.

 

The point of this story is that there was a way that we could all proceed on our respective journeys, once the sheriff's department was given incentive to find it. But the key was knowing our legal rights.

 

 

 

[tri-x1]

Benjamin Franklin's America didn't have fanatics trying to kill him and his children and his grandchildren. Don't worry, be happy. If we're just really nice there won't be any problem.

 

You can find quotes to support any point of view. Here's one I like:

 

 

"We have enjoyed so much freedom for so long that we are perhaps in danger of forgetting how much blood it cost to establish the Bill of Rights." ~Felix Frankfurter