david richhart Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 Like everyone else, I worry about the unknown voltages a flash unit can deliver to my digital camera. I always use a safe-sync, and I like the wireless triggers. BUT... <p> has anyone here actually ruined a camera? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommyinca Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 I worry more about droping the camera then frying one. Plus a LCD voltage meter is less then $10 at ebay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellis_vener_photography Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 You'd need to ask Canon's repair techs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david richhart Posted January 31, 2008 Author Share Posted January 31, 2008 Ellis... why would you use the "C" word in the Pentax forum? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
personalphotos Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 Dave, you should be banished to the Canon, Nikon, Sony et al sections for posting a sacreligious shot like that!! Funny, I liked it. Anyway to the OP's question, I haven't done it to one of my own but I was at the shot to get my PZ-1p baseplate part that had come in, and he had an LX there that was cooked. The case was off the body and the circuit board was totally fried. I can't remember what flash but it cost about $300 to get the camera going again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronald_moravec1 Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 Even if you don`t get the electronics, high current from high flash trigger voltage will ruin the flash contacts over time. Spend the $50 on a Wein Safe Sync for protection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim_utley Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 I don't understand. Are you talking about the actual flash itself causing an overvoltage/overcurrent through the camera when triggered? Is this through the hotshoe? The only wein synch I found looking around (a rather cursory examination) looked as though it was made for the remote port rather than some sort of flash adapter. Can someone please explain? I bought an inexpensive ttl flash for mine and I would be really pissed if it fried the thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellis_vener_photography Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 oh dear. I mentioned Canon. I mentioned Canon becasue some of their loweraand midrange cameras have (at least i nthe past) been rated by Canon for a sync voltage of 6 volts. The Nikon DSLRs I'm familiar with (that leaves outthe D40 , D80, etc. havealways been rated for 250 volts. I have no idea of what Pentax Minolta, Sony, Samsung, etc. say is safe for their cameras. According to the repair technicians I've spoken with the damage is cumulative. I've used wireless --primarily radio --sync for over 25 years for a simple reason - back in the early 1980s I was badly zapped --knocked out in fact - by a Speedotron 800 unit that I was using, while shooting with a Nikon F. The camera was connected to the pack with a sync cord. The Speedo had an internal short in the sync circuit. I have no desire to ever repeat the experience. (The Nikon F also survived.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob_sunley Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 No need for a short, the full sync voltage was on the silver contact right behind the rewind knob while the cord was plugged into the pc socket. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david richhart Posted January 31, 2008 Author Share Posted January 31, 2008 Tim... I use the item #2 shown on this page <p> http://www.weinproducts.com/safesyncs.htm <p> You can mount a flash on the hotshoe and it has a pc sync socket as well, so you can use 2 flashes at the same time. Paramount also makes voltage regulated flash cords. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mountainvisions Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 No camera, but I've seen or read of a Elinchron Skyport being fried and it has a 50V sync volt max. I'd think a camera with 12 or 25V would be more prone to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim_utley Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 Why is this the first time I have ever heard of this? If dedicated flashes have the tendancy towards destroying the camera's electronics, why didn't the guy behind the counter try to sell me one when he tried to sell me 100 different filters and straps and bags and tri/mono pods and all the other crap I didn't really want? Is this a common problem? Is it more with the low end or high end flashes? Can I just attach my oscilloscope to the terminals and determine from the flash if the voltage is dangerous to my camera? I am an electrical engineer, but not a photographer, but I also don't want to buy something I don't need but will be happy to buy something that will keep from destroying the camera. What are the cumulative thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank_skomial Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 "high current from high flash trigger voltage will ruin the flash contacts over time" - yes that happens, just look up old camera sync contacts with significant metal erosions. Not possible to see with semiconductor contacts. High voltage sync flashes are especially made to provide as low current as possible, due to possible harm to humans exposed to high voltage. High voltage has more potential to penetrate human skin, and low current limit prevents any serious health hazard, or significant sync contact erosure. Old days aviation industry operated on voltages about 28 VDC, that was considered max limit safe for human skin penetration from the voltage level alone. Static electricity produced e.g. by cloth friction etc., usually has many kilo volts, but produces very low current. Similarly high voltage flashes were made to Not produce any significant current on the sync terminals that could be easily exposed. I would rather worry about high current produce by low voltage flashes, as far as erosios of flash sync contact is concerned. In either case, accumulative erosure will eventually fail the contacts over possibly many years of usage of film cameras. With digital cameras fast frames, the "years of usage" looses the original meaning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim_utley Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 Another small question about this hotshoe-hotshoe thing from weir. Does kamera make/model make any difference? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mountainvisions Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 "Why is this the first time I have ever heard of this? If dedicated flashes have the tendancy towards destroying the camera's electronics, why didn't the guy behind the counter try to sell me one when he tried to sell me 100 different filters and straps and bags and tri/mono pods and all the other crap I didn't really want?" Tim, you missed out on a lot. The older flashes had high voltages but since the cameras had no electronics in them this wasn't a problem. They were designed to handle the voltage. However, with the digital and electronic age, the ability of cameras (and some RF flash transmitters) to handle voltages dropped. Most cameras have a 12-25V limit, most of the older flashes exceed that by 5-10X...you probably won't fry your camera the first time you use it but you will as time goes on. All the new digital flashes and most of the last generation of film flashes were fine. Flashes like the Vivitar 283 however require some sort of voltage regulator to be safely used as they typically put out over 100volts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jochen_S Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 Tim, we aren't talking "dedicated" flashes here. The only dangerous Pentax branded flash I 'm aware of dates probably back to the golden days of the Spotmatic. - Any flash which is "dedicated" read: capable of setting an electronic Pentax' sync speed and activating the ready symbol in the viewfinder should be safe. - At least Pentax or 3rd party units with SCA feet are. The dangerous stuff is really old and was made to accompany mechanical cameras where it did no great harm as long as it worked properly. - Exception: really dirt cheap small hotshoe flashes powered with 1-2 AA cells have still high trigger voltages. I can't remember exactly what a Pentax can stand it isn't much, probably less than 30V - better e-mail their tech support or search the web. The following URL claims something between 25-30V as a maximum. http://www.ok1000pentax.com/2006/05/wein-safe-sync-hot-shoe-adapter.html You can measure sync Voltage easily with any Voltmeter between the side and big middle contact of a hotshoe foot. - No need for an oscilloscope (I wouldn't even know how to read it.) Units with attached PC cables are a bit nastier to measure but in doubt "dangerous" too, since they are pretty old fashioned. About price ranges: Professional studio strobes like the one that zapped Ellis weren't cheap during their days and you can probably still spend $1000+ on a decent kit of used ones (with accessories). Here a little travel kit of contemporary monoblocks will set me back over 1800Euro. Their ancestors probably did cost accordingly. - Big studios need and have bigger strobes and won't replace what isn't broken beyond repair. If you are planning to buy cheapos: read specs, write to tech support and measure. If a reputable manufacturer claims their product to be save, believe them. - Elinchrome Style or RX are 5V, Multiblitz Profilux 9V for example. Dangerous bigger (4+ AA cells or gun & shoulder pack) flashes to be camera mounted are probably 20+year old by now. I'd call anything whistling during the charging suspicious. You can find long lists of flashes and their sync Voltages on the Internet too. - Practically the problem isn't extremely relevant. personally I'm triggering the old stuff I accumulated over optical slave cells and elderly SCA flashes in my hotshoe. For serious work with camera mounted flash I prefer my by now also 20 year old but save Metz 60ct4 or any PTTL flash. - It isn't that hard to find something decent. Used plain TTL flashes dropped severely in price since that doesn't communicate with the DSLRs. About Wein safesync: camera make makes a difference as far as Nikon and Minolta left the common ground for flash mounts with some models. Minolta made their own hotshoe, Nikon had a flash synch around the rewind crank for a while and later a proprietary TTL cable plug for their better P&S like the Coolpix 990. Early Leicas had their own synch cable socket too. Besides that none that I'm aware of. But contemporary Canons and Nikons targeted to professionals seem to stand high synch Voltage again, so you don't need the extra gadgets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim_utley Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 Thank you for the info. I was a little worried there for a minute. All my stuff is brand new. I'll test the voltage just for kicks -- engineer in me just wants to know now that it might be important. Thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul_noble Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 What I don't understand is why the camera makers don't include isolation circuits in the hotshoe. It seems to me that it would cost next to nothing for Pentax and others to include the equivalent of a Wein SafeSync in their cameras. In fact, I think I read a description of the new K20D that said that there was an isolation circuit in the PC socket. Why not the hotshoe, as well? Paul Noble Paul Noble Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommyinca Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 They (manufacturers) do include over voltage protection diode hence you see a 200-250V spec. No body want to take returns and have a heated dispute with their customers on warrenty. Ask a Canon service rep :-) See above. Only a very small number of old flash has high voltage in their sync ternimal. Most are less then 12V. Best measure the voltage before using an un-known flash. A 12V LCD volt meter is less then $10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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