SLR suggestion needed

[nuno_campos1]

Hi,

 

Sorry if this is an inadequate question to this forum, but there is no forum

for non-specified brands or an analogical cameras forum and I thought you

could help me with this.

 

I am looking for 2 manual SLRs to offer my daughter and my nephew. They are

very young (7 and 8 years old) and I could offer them digital P&S cameras but

they adore to be with me in the darkroom and see the magic of making

photographs like "many years ago". Now they want to learn how to make their

own photos.

 

They seem very interested and I let them look through the focus finder and

control the developing times.

I think that, despite they age, working with a manual camera, under my

supervision, with a tripod, selecting the speeds and apertures, focusing

properly, would be of great benefit to improve the their concentration. They

could learn not only photography but how to make things with calm.

 

I was thinking on a Ricoh or a Chinon.

The reasons: they were used mainly by amateurs and probably did not suffer

hard abuse; the K-mount offers a wide variety of lenses, even if I am only

looking for 50mm right now; they have a classical design, with the shutter

dial very visible on the top; they are easy to find, very inexpensive and

people tend to say good things about them.

 

Am I thinking correctly? Is an SLR to much of a camera for young kids?

 

What would you recommend me?

 

Thanks in advance and sorry the English.

 

Best regards,

 

Nuno Campos.

[george_shihanian]

I don't have much experience with Ricoh or Chinon, but you may be choosing them for the wrong reason. An amateur grade camera that old may be unreliable, or even difficult to find a perfect working example this many years after their introduction. I'd advise you to get a manual Nikon or Olympus, an all manual example with a working meter. These were intended more for professionals and can stand up to light abuse from a youngster. Most available out there were never used by a professional, so they're in nice condition. The Olympus tho, will have the shutter dial at the front of the camera around the lensmount. Not a big deal, I prefer that since when holding the camera to shoot, your left hand is already placed right there.

[r.c._booth]

Well this question ought to get a lot of different responses for brand recommendations! Canon, Minolta, Olympus, Pentax and Nikon models from the 1970's and 80's each have several models that are rugged, reliable, can be fixed if needed, plentiful and available for relatively low cost. Each of these have good lenses and there are a wide selection of OEM and aftermarket lenses that are easily found. At most one of these cameras may need a good cleaning but at the least nearly everyone will require that the foam seals and mirror foam be replaced. This is something that you can do and will cost only a few dollars.

[JDMvW]

As they say, amateur grade use also means amateur-grade construction. For years now the older Pentax models have been a staple of film class use, and may be good.

 

On the other hand, there's something to be said for a nice older (or even new) film point and shoot. Something with auto exposure at least might be a good match for such young shooters. You want enough to intrigue them with photography, but not so much that they are discouraged and lose interest. Then if they like taking pictures, etc. in a few years move to an SLR?

[markus maurer]

I agree with your idea of a Ricoh body. Small, light, K-mount and normal batteries and inexpensive. Some of them are even more capable than the Pentax counterpart, for example the Ricoh KR-10X.

[nuno_campos1]

Thay have used P&S cameras (Agfa Optima Sensor Electronic and Olympus XA2), but after seeing how to use an SLR (Nikon FG) they liked to see the image focusing (I was rotating the lens and hey were looking through the viewfinder); to see the LED indicator blinking in order to select another speed and then rotate the shutter speed dial according to that indication.

 

They seemed to have a lot of fun, and they seemed interested, more than with the P&S, that is why I was thinking on buying them SLRs.

Of course there are a lot of choices, and the big brands are always good options, but I just whant something simple and inexpensive to use gently on weekends.

[stephen_kinosh]

I would look for 2 use Pentax Spotmatis or K1000. GREAT beginner camera, and I still haev one that I refuse to part with.

 

Steve

[aeaster]

Senhor Campos, I have thought about this and propose a different solution that I think would work even better. Why sir do these cameras need to be SINGLE Lens Reflex? Why can they not be TWIN Lens Reflex? My reasoning is as follows:

 

1-Durability. With the exception of the currently produced Seagull, TLR cameras were (in general) stronger built with fewer moving parts. The steel-bodied Ciro-Flex must rank amoung the most robust camera designs ever produced.

 

2-Film size. Here I do not necessarily mean the relative dimensions of each frame; I am refering to the length of the roll. A typical roll of 35mm has 36 shots on it while the 120 has but 12. While a more disciplined adult may appreciate the numbers on the roll, a child's desire for more instant gratification might be best served with rolls of 12. Enough to teach patience; not so many as to exhaust the child's attention-span.

 

3-Contact prints from the negatives are a viable option.

 

4-A TLR is far more stable hung on a neck strap than an SLR held to eye level.

[cliffmanley]

I had the same problem come up, and needed to get a camera for a 10 year old. I opted for an Agfa Billy Record. It is a simple camera, that takes great pictures. There are only two focus settings for 5-16 feet and 16 to infinity or something like that. The rest is the "Sunny 16 Rule" set the speed for the ASA of the film. f16 for sunny,f8 cloudy, f5.6 for shade. Thats all there is and it's enough for a kid, and yet more than just a brownie that needs nothing. It's good to get them used to doing SOMETHING up there! Don't forget these are kids, they don't need alot of changeable lenses or fancy gizmo's. When she took this camera to show and tell, none of the other kids had ever seen anything like it before! She was instantly Very Cool!

(for about $12 on ebay)

 

She can develop the film in a can in the sink, and makes contact prints from the big 6x9cm negatives. The 120 film is about the same price as 35mm but makes life simple for the kids to make wallet size pictures on their own! And when she gets a good one, I help her enlarge it in my darkroom.

Very cool! Very cheap! Very easy for them, (don't discourge them with too much complication, or it will get thrown in the closet!)

 

Here it is! http://perfectplanes.com/billy-record.html

[jon_b.1]

The Sears TLS (made by Ricoh) is practically bullet-proof, has an all metal shutter (no leaky curtains as with cloth shutters) uses M42 screw-mount lenses, is simple to use, and has a somewhat reliable meter (match needle) and can be had on eBay for less than $20. I got my 6 year old started with a simple box camera (Ansco Shur-Flash) and I will let him use the TLS I bought for $10 when he is ready for that sort of thing.

[patrick j dempsey]

I think an SLR is not tooo much for an 8 year old... except that maybe these cameras shouldn't just be handed over. They should be daddy's special things on loan for use during family photo outings. Kids tend to have much much more respect for things when they are daddy's. There is a chance that a camera in their possession might end up with sticks and leaves shoved in the film chamber.... "but daddy, we ran out of film and had to make our own!" Or used as atomic lasers that happen to also crush rocks. I'm not saying your kids are stupid but I know that for me, when I was young, imagination trumped common sense MANY times. If you want to give them their own cameras to have, maybe one of those "Time-Life" cameras you find at thrift stores?... it LOOKS like a fancy camera to a kid, and no harm done using it to scoop up mud or falling on the ground while holding it. The lead weights in the bottom of it gives the perception of being a real camera.... don't worry, unless your kids smash the thing into bits and decide to use the lead weights as bars of soap it shouldn't be a problem.

[Troll]

Dear Sr.Campos,<P>What an exciting prospect to have with your children. But I think you are right that at ages 7 and 8 they are too young to deal with the complexities of using an SLR.<P>Give them P&S digital cameras now, so they can make their own pictures, and promise them that when they're ten they will get a real camera "just like Papa's."<P>And keep taking them to the darkroom!

[david_m]

Too young for an SLR. Wait till they are 11 or 12. I'd start them with a point and shoot. You can still develop in the darkroom if you want. At that age, the results they get are more important than the technique of achieving them. By the time they grow up they will probably want diigital cameras anyway.

[george_shihanian]

I don't think they're too young. They may be too young to go out shooting on their own without your supervision- even very smart kids may do some dumb things. For example- you don't want them to point the camera at the sun while trying to take a picture of it-

 

If they are truly showing the curiosity/interest in photography themselves, and not just doing something daddy wants them to do, then they're not too young. They may stick with it for life, or they may drop the whole idea after a week, that's kids. One of my now grown children showed an interest early on with regard to cameras and still does, the other seemingly couldn't care at all.

[Rob_the_waste]

If you are serious about going this route, you might want to check into something in M42 mount like a Praktica or Zenit. The Helios 44 lenses have been good to me so far, and they're not expensive. I currently use two M42 mount cameras. One is a Praktica Super TL. The other is a rebadged Chinon CS. The Chinon is my workhorse as it has the hot shoe flash mount along with the self timer (the meter still works on this one although it's designed for a mercury battery, but that's another story). My 50 mm lens is a Pentacon Electric 1.8/50 mm. I have no complaints. Overall lenses are affordable. If a camera gets dropped... oh well, can you scrape up another $20.00?

[glenn_mabbutt]

<b>Cliff</b> - <i>I had the same problem come up, and needed to get a camera for a 10 year old. I opted for an Agfa Billy Record.</i>

<p>

Interesting - I would have thought an Agfa Clack would have been a better choice - no bellows to worry about.

[cliffmanley]

Yea, but the Bellows looks so OLD and COOL to the kids. It grabs their interest. That particular one has a very simple shutter and settings, great for the kids. A full blown compur with all of the setings and focus is way too much for them. Alot of adults are overwhelmed over that stuff. That's why point-and-shoot is so popular!

[JDMvW]

If the kids have already tried an SLR and liked it, what the heck.

 

Something like the early AI Nikons (EL descendents) would have the lights blinking and so on, but still provide aperture preferred shooting when you want it so that it wouldn't be too complex. Early Canon EOS film cameras are still wonderful shooters, provide automatic exposure when the other stuff becomes overwhelming, and sell on eBay for less than $30 US (which is what I paid for two EOS 650 bodies). The 50mm plastic mount EF f/1.8 lens mark II is usually at $50 on eBay and if you can find it used from the major NYC vendors or their equivalent wherever you are. Skills acquired on those would smoothly transition to digital at some later date. With simple adapters costing less than $25, you can mount manual Nikon lenses too(have to shoot stopped down). The EOS cameras can be fully manual or fully automatic at choice.<div></div>

[peter_naylor1]

Interesting question, Nuno - and some very interesting answers so far. Generally I'd say that a 7 or 8 year old kid would be too young to handle an SLR, but the fact that they've shown a continued interest in your use of such a camera together with watching you at work in a darkroom shows they're a couple of exceptional kids. So, my advice would be "Go For It".

 

Now the second question is, which model of SLR should you buy? Some of the other guys have mentioned older warhorses like the Pentax Spotmatic, but I'd avoid such a choice because of comparatively heavy weight. The kids would want to carry their cameras with them when walking in the park or wherever, and you don't want to spoil their interest by making a fun event into a drudge. Better to go for something much lighter and smaller, like the Olympus OM10/20(G). These don't cost a great deal these days but they're reliable and you can pick up a great variety of OM mount lenses for when the kids want to move on to photographing the moon or an insect. Good luck!

[gib]

Nikon FM2

[steve m smith]

As they have already used a Nikon FG, why not get one (or two) of those?<BR><BR>

I have one which I like a lot. It uses Nikon lenses or many other brands made to fit, it's compact and lightweight and has a good metering system with manual, aperture priority and program modes (but you know that already!).

[nuno_campos1]

Hi again.

Thanks for all the answers. There are some good points out there. I never thought on a 6x6 or an 6x9 camera.

Right now my main question is: will they be interested next month? I do not know, and that is why I am looking for something cheap.

[shadowfox]

Chinons? they are so good I use them myself. The one to get for K-mount is the CE-4S. Basically a Pentax MX + 1/2000th shutter. And yes, they are dirt cheap because people don't pay attention to them.

[russ_britt3]

Canon t50 can be bought for nothing....uses the older fd lens(cheaper) shoots in auto , just focuse. I have bought several on ebay for my daughters. Usually a body with zoom lens and flash 15-20 dollars.Uses aa batterys.....hard to beat....not a big deal if lost or dropped.

[richard_oleson]

Ricohs are very good cameras; FD mount Canons and their lenses are going pretty cheap now as the FD is one of the few mounts that can't be adapted to use on a DSLR, so there may be some bargains there.

 

Not sure about whether it's too early. I started out with a Voigtlander Vito when I was 10.... My younger daughter always had an interest in photography, I started her out with an autofocus P&S when she was probably around 7 and she promptly lost it. After a couple of years I gave her an old Mamiya fixed-lens SLR and she liked that but very soon wanted to be able to change lenses. She then moved up to a Ricoh KR5 with a Pentax K1000 as backup, which she likes very well. For her 21st birthday I gave her a Yashica Mat TLR which she loves. The original P&S may have been a little early but no harm was done. Either keep track of where they go with the camreas, or be philosophical about it if they return without them one day.