gary_lim1 Posted January 1, 2008 Share Posted January 1, 2008 Hi all: First, I would like to apologize if this is completely off topics but really don't know where else to post this. I was going to post it as the feedback. However, I don't know if I should at this point as it cannot be deleted. I need some suggestions or help here. A couple of weeks ago, I agreed to buy a 5D from this guy, Clyde Tollison, from photo.net and sent him a money order. At first, his communication was excellent. After he got the money order, I only received one e-mail from him saying the camera was mailed (on Dec 26). I asked for a tracking number but no reply since. In his last communication, the camera should have arrived yesterday at the latest but of course, nothing so far. I have sent him 5 e-mails but no reply. I tried calling him but nobody answered. Here is the original ad link below http://www.photo.net/gc/view-one?classified_ad_id=700953 He does have two positive feedback at photo.net. Any view as to what I should do? Thanks, Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael_notar1 Posted January 1, 2008 Share Posted January 1, 2008 people are busy around the holidays, coupled with winter storms and holiday mailing companies closurers. give it an extra week, then take action if needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petemillis Posted January 1, 2008 Share Posted January 1, 2008 I'd file a police report already if I were you. He joined PN on 3 December 2007 and has already deleted his account....fishy... Why the hell are classified ads allowed from brand new members like this? I reckon ads should ONLY be allowed from paid up members who have paid to join using credit card and a verified address...at least then there is some degree of traceability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petemillis Posted January 1, 2008 Share Posted January 1, 2008 DON'T GIVE IT AN EXTRA WEEK - ACT NOW... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hjoseph7 Posted January 1, 2008 Share Posted January 1, 2008 Some people are terrible salesmen and should not be in the business of selling anything. I experienced this many times on eBay, but I allways got my merchandise. At least eBay has some kind of Resolution page where you can freeze a members account if you need to do so. I'm not sure about photo.net. You might try contacting a Private Detective, or a Lawyer involved with on-line fraud, but that might cost you more than the camera itself. You never know, the person who sold you the camera might be somewhere in Europe enjoying the money, or they might be on some other trip right here in the US. I hope you still have the address where you mailed that money order. I usually check with the regional post office before I mail out anything over $300. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshroot Posted January 1, 2008 Share Posted January 1, 2008 <i>"I reckon ads should ONLY be allowed from paid up members who have paid to join using credit card and a verified address...at least then there is some degree of traceability."</i> <p> I have thought about limiting the classifieds area to photo.net paid subscribers only. The problem with this would be that it then implies that we (photo.net) are somehow policing and enforcing the classifieds. This is not the case and we do not have the manpower or time to make it so. The photo.net classifieds have always been buyer/seller beware. <p> I cannot stress enough how important it is to not mail money to someone you have no history with or information about. Use Paypal or some other payment system that gives you recourse in case a problem occurs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petemillis Posted January 1, 2008 Share Posted January 1, 2008 Josh, I think it would be reasonable to put a disclaimer to the effect that photo.net cannot police the ads. The thing is....if you made it so that the ads were for paid up members only, and had a billing system that ONLY accepted credit/bank cards and required input of card billing address, and the 3 digit security code from the card, then it is far less likely that dodgy ads would appear. and if something did go tits up, at least there is some record of the advertiser and their billing address would have been verified by the bank. I would forget paypal altogether for taking member subs as this is just a point where the person joining can use a hijacked paypal account. And everyone has a credit/debit card anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradgillette Posted January 1, 2008 Share Posted January 1, 2008 @Josh Root - While I understand that you do not want to imply photo.net responsibility within the classifieds, I believe there is a way to improve the security while remaining uninvolved legally. On the massively popular SomethingAwful.com forums there is a classifieds subforum, Awful Mart. The rules for buying or selling on the forum is you must be a member for at least 9 months before doing so. Included with this is a legal disclaimer that SomethingAwful LLC takes no responsibility for the activities taking place within this forum. Limiting who can buy/sell can be done while still remaining legally immune. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petemillis Posted January 1, 2008 Share Posted January 1, 2008 Josh, something else I have just noticed is that there is a note at the bottom of the screen where you can email the seller of an item in the classifieds that implies photo.net DO police the ads. You may want to have this re-worded...This is what it says at the mo: "Please note that your email communication to the advertiser will be stored in the photo.net database, and in the course of policing the Classifieds section for fraud, it may be reviewed by photo.net administrators. Accordingly, please do not include personal or private information which you do not want to be read by photo.net employees or volunteer staff. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshroot Posted January 1, 2008 Share Posted January 1, 2008 But if we are saying "we take your contact info in case anything goes wrong" then we are obliged to be involved with any problems. And that is specifically what we are not equipped to do. Not to mention the manpower, giving out someone's personal info opens up a host of liability and privacy-law issues. <p> That having been said, I really would like to find some better methods of keeping the scammers off of the classifieds. It doesn't do anyone any good to let people get ripped off. In reality though, I think this is one of those things that would have to be put in front of the lawyers for their input. Sadly, that's the cost of living in a land where we are free to sue whoever we want. <p> One thing I could do easily is to make <a href="http://www.photo.net/gc/about">this page</a> more visible, since I doubt many people read it. I have also been thinking about bringing "safe buying/selling" up in an upcoming issue of the newsletter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petemillis Posted January 1, 2008 Share Posted January 1, 2008 Gary....you said you checked and saw J Clyde Tollison had 2 positive feedback on photo.net. Well, I just typed "Tollison" into the neighbour to neighbour seach bit, and here is feedback for everyone named Tollison: 10: Michael Taylor/James Tollison : Beware! ! ! 10: James Tollison : BEWARE! He will Rob you! 10: James Tollison : Lost $3250.00 on 1Ds Camera 10: Will Tollison : Beware Lost $3250.00 on 1Ds Camera (James Tollison} 10: James Tollison : Trying to sell a black chrome Leica M4 10: James Tollison : An efficient scammer and frauder! BEWARE! 10: James Tollison : Beware, Fraudulent seller! ! ! 10: Clyde Tollison : Great Seller A+++++ 10: Clyde Tollison : Item as described an shipped promptly Aweaome Seller Tollison must be a bit of a dodgy name. I'm really sorry to say think you've been done, and it's a shame that the name "Tollison" hasn't been blackflagged somehow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gary_lim1 Posted January 1, 2008 Author Share Posted January 1, 2008 Hi all: Thanks so much for all your feedbacks. That does make me somewhat better. At least, I'm totally out in the cold. I also realize there is another guy under the same name selling two other items. I wonder if it's the same person. I did get his phone number and checked if it's a real number. Apparently, it's real number that belongs to the same city of the mailing address. And yes, I still have the mailing address and keep all my correspondences. Btw, how do I check on the address on the regional post office? Does anyone have experience in filing police report from out of state? He lives in TX and I live in NJ. I am in no way blaming photo.net. I've been with this site for a long time and have bought and sold many things here. This is is the first time that getting burnt. I guess I feel a bit too comfortable with the site. :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petemillis Posted January 1, 2008 Share Posted January 1, 2008 Josh, I'm about to email you off list.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiro Posted January 1, 2008 Share Posted January 1, 2008 <i>if you made it so that the ads were for paid up members only, and had a billing system that ONLY accepted credit/bank cards and required input of card billing address...</i><br><br> having been involved in the building and maintenance of online communities, I have to say that I think Josh is doing the right thing here. There are legal reckonings, especially internationally. If you imply that you are doing something to stop scammers, there are plenty of lawyers out there that will turn that around into a negligence suit against pnet. If you take the something awful route, as noted above, that may work, if you're willing to pay for it. It all comes down to what your risks are, and how much you're willing to lay out in a legal defense. The route pnet takes right now is the most easily defensible position, and something awful's is defensible, but would cost more. I am not a lawyer, but this is the advice I've gotten from several on the subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelging Posted January 1, 2008 Share Posted January 1, 2008 Find the phone number for the city police dept.in the city he lives in. Call them and ask to speak to a Fraud Detective, and ask to file a police report. I have done this and it does give you some added pressure to get your camera or money back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshroot Posted January 1, 2008 Share Posted January 1, 2008 Thanks for the note Kier. That is the reasoning I was operating on. We do have a very smart and talented lawyer, and it's a conversation that I don't mind having with her. But I would be surprised if our position changed much. As I said earlier, I do think I can make some changes that emphasize "safe buying" a bit more than we do now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiro Posted January 1, 2008 Share Posted January 1, 2008 <i>Btw, how do I check on the address on the regional post office? Does anyone have experience in filing police report from out of state? He lives in TX and I live in NJ.</i><br><br> did you mail a money order? or did you wire him money (e.g. western union)? if you sent it by mail, it's mail fraud, contact the postmaster general's office - last i heard, they have the highest conviction rate of any law enforcement arm. outside of that i'm not positive - since it's interstate, can you use the fbi? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianS1664879711 Posted January 1, 2008 Share Posted January 1, 2008 Ummm, folks. Has anyone done a google/yahoo search on his name. There is some information on both a "Sr." and "Jr." that you might want to know about before you slander him/them. Both seem like tough hombres that you don't want to make mad. ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gary_lim1 Posted January 1, 2008 Author Share Posted January 1, 2008 I mailed the money order and still have the tracking number and receipt of the money order. Thanks Kier for the information. I will investigate the FBI route as well. Thanks a bunch guys. You're the greatest. I'll keep you guys posted. Btw, this guys doesn't use third party e-mail. I think he has windstream.net e-mail account. Does it make it easier to track? I will keep you guys posted on the progress. I'm hoping for the best but expecting the worst. :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petemillis Posted January 1, 2008 Share Posted January 1, 2008 Kier, check out the wording on the bottom of the page where one can send the seller of an item an email (in the case of one of the Tollison ads it's http://www.photo.net/gc/comm-to-poster?classified_ad_id=700953 ). What does that wording imply to you? (just out of interest...I know what it implies to me but wonder if you think the same) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petemillis Posted January 1, 2008 Share Posted January 1, 2008 Now do this....Clyde Tollison had positive feedback here from Sherry Burrell, as did Charles Carter and Fern Garcia. Here is Sherry Burrell's member page - http://www.photo.net/shared/community-member?user_id=1770217 . Now here is Charles Carter's set of three feedbacks (the positive one is from Sherry Burrell) 10: charles carter : Fraudlant Seller! Do not Deal with this Individual! 10: charles carter : great seller would recommend 10: charles carter : Beware - Lier and possible scammer And here is Fern Garcia's feedback 10: Fern Garcia : would deal with again great seller 10: Fern Garcia : Awesome Seller 10: Fern Garcia : The best ive dealt with 10: Fern Garcia : Great Seller A++ Now what is interesting to note is that one of Fern Garcia's positive feedbacks is from Charles Carter. It happens to be for a $3500 lens. And the other feedbacks for Fern Garcia are from people who have only every made one post to the forum - and that is to give Fern Garcia positive feedback.... And someone else who gave Tollison positive feedback is Kaylee Foster - again, her only post is to give Tollison positive feedback, and she kindly says "I will have to admit at first I was a little skeptical of clyde. I didnt particularly care for his payment preferences. But we reached an agreement and the item was exactly as described and shipped quickly. Great seller and good for the community. " so this nicely puts anyone at easy who may be feeling funny about sending a money order or bank transfer. Just type the names Tollison, Fern Garcia, Charles Carter, Sherry Burrell into the PN search and you'll get my drift. I worked as a Fraud Analyst for a big charge card company for 5 years, and can spend hours doing this :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gary_lim1 Posted January 1, 2008 Author Share Posted January 1, 2008 wow... Pete. Thanks! I just filed a complaint to US postal inspection. I guess I wouldn't hold my hope high in this case... Well, there goes my Christmas present... :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianS1664879711 Posted January 1, 2008 Share Posted January 1, 2008 http://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=A0oGkjgM5HpHDCwBj_9XNyoA?p=clyde+tollison+texas&fr=att-portal&ei=UTF-8 ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshroot Posted January 1, 2008 Share Posted January 1, 2008 <i>"What does that wording imply to you? (just out of interest...I know what it implies to me but wonder if you think the same)"</i> <p> I hadn't realized that wording was in there until you brought it up. As such, I have now changed it to remove any implication that we are responsible for the honesty of the classifieds placed on the site. After all, I think that the information on this page: <a href="http://www.photo.net/gc/about">About the Photo.net Classifieds</a>, pretty much trumps a single contradictory sentence in an obscure location. The following being the most crucial part of that page for this particular discussion: <p> <i>"photo.net has not reviewed these ads and does not vouch for the sellers or buyers in any way. We are not a party to the transactions, and we derive no income from posting fees or commissions on the transactions. We provide absolutely no recourse in the case of fraud or any other unsatisfactory transaction -- other than to cooperate with law enforcement authorities by providing them with what information we might have from our database or logs."</i> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gary_lim1 Posted January 1, 2008 Author Share Posted January 1, 2008 Thanks Brain. I guess I'll call the police department and report it. I suppose they are quite familiar with the guy. I just feel very upset and sad about the whole deal. Money is one thing (I saved a long time for this camera) and the other thing is that I feel very violated... :( Not a good way to start my new year I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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