Starting b/w processing

[RaymondC]

Hi all,

 

With my photog club we have a month theme of monochrome and I have some Ilford

HP5 so I wanna give it a go, I have done digital b/w but want something

different this time and its great time to use that film that I have.

 

I have done much reading. So I have a few more questions.

 

What are the storing times before they go bad for:

Developer - liquid based - unopen and open bottle.

Developer - powder form - when mixed I understand the whole thing has to be

mixed due to concentrations.

Stop bath

Fixer - unopen and opened.

Rinser - unopen and opened.

 

(2), the stop bath and fixer can be reused - what are the guidelines for this?

Does it need more time to soak or temperature adjustment or when it can be

kept before fresh stock should be used?

 

For a hobbyist I think I can just use fresh fixer and stop bath each time ...?

 

I understand vinegar can be used for one of them as a cheap source, what about

the other?

 

I have been looking around, unfortunately where I am not in the USA, the

darkroom stuff are on the bottom of the shelf and with dust on them and $$, like

one measuring cylinder is like $10US equiv. So I went to my local $2 store and

got some kitchen measuring cups - these are wider and temperature may drop

quicker is that an issue? Furthermore, the thermometer and a measuring cup may

be used with all 3 diff solutions, is contaminations an issue - what is the

workaround for this?

 

 

 

Thanks in adavance.

[robert lee]

"What are the storing times before they go bad..."

 

It depends on the developer. Two that are noted for longevity are Rodinal and HC-110. I like HC-110 also for the results, flexibility, economy and convenience (mix one shot directly from syrup.)

 

"So I went to my local $2 store and got some kitchen measuring cups - these are wider and temperature may drop quicker ..."

 

Temperature control is crucial really only during developing. Get a large wash pan. Fill with water to the desired developing temperature. Mix the working strength developer with this, and steep the developing tank in it between agigations.

[chris_waller]

I use Rodinal for a variety of reasons, its keeping qulaities being one. Being a liquid concentrate it is very convenient.

 

Yes, white vineagr can be used as stop bath. And I use Ilford Hypam/Rapid Fixer diluted 1+4. Both of these can be reused. The only probelm with resuing white vinegar is that you won't know when it's exhausted - but indicating stop bath will tell you when it's approaching exhaustion by turning grey, then blue. You need to monitor your use of fixer - 1 litre at 1+4 diltuion will fix twenty-four 36 exposure films.

 

I only use accurate measuring cylinders for the dev; for stop and fix I use plastic kitcehn jugs.

 

I wash using the Ilford Method - fill the tank with water, give 5 inversions and drain. Refill, 10 inversions, drain; refull, 20 inversions, drain - and to be realy sure, refill, 40 inversions, drain.

 

For the final rinse of the film I use Tetenal Mirasol wetting-agent. I mix this up at the rate of 3 drops per 100 ml water in a separate jug, then dunk the reel of film in it.

[Monophoto]

What are the storing times before they go bad for: Developer - liquid based - unopen and open bottle. Developer - powder form - when mixed I understand the whole thing has to be mixed due to concentrations. Stop bath Fixer - unopen and opened. Rinser - unopen and opened.

 

- I prefer to use liquid concentrates to avoid having to mix powders. Liquids last for a very long time - I routinely have HC110 concentrate on the shelf in my darkroom for a year or more in tightly closed bottles. For occasional use, it's more economical and more consistent to use developers as a one-shot.

 

- Commercial stop baths will last forever. However, for film development, a plain water rinse is actually good enough - acid stop is only needed with prints.

 

- Fixers will also last a very long time. I use rapid (ammonium thiosulfate) fixers, mixing a quart of working solution and reusing it until it is exhausted. Typically, film clears in about a minute in fresh fixer. When the fixer has become exhausted enough to lengthen the clearing time to about twice that with fresh fixer, its time to mix a new working solution.

 

- hypoclear - this lasts a long time as the manufacturer's concentrate, but has a very short life as a working solution. It's cheap - use it one shot.

 

- rinse aid (eg, PhotoFlo) - also lasts a very long time in both the concentrated form and as a working solution. I tend to mix up a gallon at a time, and then decant off a quart as a working solution - mainly for convenience. Ideally, the working solution should be made with either distilled water or water that has been processed through a reverse osmosis filter to remove particles. The concentrate itself is inexpensive, but the water used to make the working solution is more costly and harder to obtain, so I choose to reuse it.

 

(2), the stop bath and fixer can be reused - what are the guidelines for this?

 

- See above

 

For a hobbyist I think I can just use fresh fixer and stop bath each time ...?

 

- I agree with you about stop, but fixer is more expensive and frankly, fixer is the one chemical in the darkroom for which there are environmental concerns, so the less you use, the less you have to worry. That's why I choose to reuse fixer.

 

I understand vinegar can be used for one of them as a cheap source, what about the other?

 

- The traditionally preferred stop bath is made with acetic acid - same as vinegar.

 

I have been looking around, unfortunately where I am not in the USA, the darkroom stuff are on the bottom of the shelf and with dust on them and $$, like one measuring cylinder is like $10US equiv. So I went to my local $2 store and got some kitchen measuring cups - these are wider and temperature may drop quicker is that an issue? Furthermore, the thermometer and a measuring cup may be used with all 3 diff solutions, is contaminations an issue - what is the workaround for this?

 

- Right on - photographic equipment always costs more at the camera store than it does at the utility store next door. I have a collection of "graduates" - cooking grade measuring cups, graduated disposable plastic containers, and even urine collection containers from drug testing programs. Rinse them out and reuse them.

 

- Thermometers are another matter - you need repeatability more than accuracy, and to get that you need a thermometer where the temperatures you will be trying to maintain in the darkroom are in the middle of the measurement range and where the measurement range is fairly narrow so that you can discern small differences in temperatures. Most general purpose thermometers either have a very wide range (which makes it hard to discern the difference between 18 deg and 20deg C, for example), or where those traditional processing temperatures are off at one end of the scale where the thermometer is less repeatable. Spending the money for a good photographic thermometer may be a good investment.

[chris_markiewicz]

is the temperature in your darkroom much warmer/colder than the temp you want for the chemicals?

chris

[Monophoto]

My darkroom is in our basement - not intentionally heated, so that the ambient temperature when I walk in in the winter is high 50's or thereabouts. Comfortable enough to work in, and by the time I have been working for an hour or so with the safelights on, its up to around 65. That's quite a reasonable processing temperature for prints.

 

For film, I aim for 68 degrees - 20 deg C.

[christopher_dold]

As others have said temperature only matters when the liquid is in contact with the film.

 

Plastic tanks can absorb heat while developing so stick the thermometer in the top during development and use the measured temperature to determine the time. Ilford give a chart for tempeature coresction that may hold true for most developers.

 

You can test stored fixer by doing a clearing test with the cut leader of you film (if you're using 35mm. If it doesn't clear in a decent time then make a new batch.

 

I agree about the cost of photographic measuring cylinders. try to pick them up cheaply second hand or use substitutes. You will mostly need to measure 1+9 for developer and 1+4 for fixer. 5 ml. feeding syringes are available from pharmacies and are handy for concentrated developer. So ong as the proportions are right, it doesn't matter if you mix half a litre instead of 300 ml.

 

Developer tends to turn brown when it goes off, fixer develops crystals when exposed to air for too long. wetting agent lasts forver as does acid stop. I usually just use a water rinse instead of acid stop because it's too much trouble to go and look for the concentrate.

 

I'm currently using a home brew thermometer because I dropped my percious Patterson mercury thermometer and my spare is marked in Fahrenheit. Conistency is more important than accuracy.