dennis_w3 Posted October 13, 2007 Share Posted October 13, 2007 I want to purchase a small classic rangefinder camera to use for quick snaps on my next vacation in San Francisco. I'll be hauling my Topcon Super D with a few lenses, but I want one I can grab, focus, and shoot. I see lots of them on the auction site (Olympus, Yashica, Canon, etc) but know very little about them. My basic requirements: automatic exposure, reasonably fast lens for lower light and slow film, rugged enough to last a while, reasonable price (less than $75.00). I like the boxy types like the Oly RC or Yashica Electro models with the 40-45 mm lenses. Anyone have experience with these cameras? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morthcam Posted October 13, 2007 Share Posted October 13, 2007 Olympus RC35 is aperture priority, not full auto, but is a great little camera that meets all your requirements other than full auto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelging Posted October 13, 2007 Share Posted October 13, 2007 I have the 2 models you mentioned and the one Matt recomended , but I like a Canonette G-III QL-17, A beautiful camera.Its small, sharp,fast lens and auto-exposure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark_hahn Posted October 13, 2007 Share Posted October 13, 2007 For your stated needs and aesthetic preferences I might check out an Olympus ECR. They cost about $15 for a mint example, direct replacement batteries seem to work well enough for b&w film and the camera is a blast. The RC is aperture priority while the ECR is program only, but really, in real life shooting I didn't find the aperture priority that useful when coupled with a top shutter speed of only 1/500th (since I always shot 400 or 800 speed film in it anyway)... I always seemed to be stuck at one end or the other just like the program mode. I like the styling of the ECR better too. (Being the good uncle that I am, I gave my RC away to a budding young photog neice, but kept the ECR)... at least look into it. Same lens as the much loved RC too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walter_degroot Posted October 13, 2007 Share Posted October 13, 2007 don't get me wrong, I like the old classic cameras. I like the looks of them and think they are, in many ways, better than the newer cameras But let me suggest an option, the olympus stylus epic cameras. why them? because olympus sells " refurbs" on ebay. A 150 zoom went for $15.50 plus $6 shipping. even if you do get a good classic and take it on that trip one of these decent P&S cameras are going for very little Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark_hahn Posted October 13, 2007 Share Posted October 13, 2007 Oh yeah, I love my Stylus Epic for traveling... very nice indeed! I also like Minox 35mm (I have a GL). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Collins Posted October 13, 2007 Share Posted October 13, 2007 I love the Canon GIII QL17. It's an excellent full-featured camera in a nice compact body that takes wonderfully sharp pictures. BUT, my current favorite camera is the Olympus RC. It allows you full manual control (while allowing you to see speed and shutter settings in the viewfinder) or set it to "A" and you select the speed while the camera selects the aperture. It also has a nice flash-sync system, a very compact size, and amazingly good build quality. It's a camera that you like more and more as you use it. The Zuiko lens is as amazingly sharp as the Canon (and many other top-quality lenses) and delivers great color and contrast. All that being said though, Walter makes a good point regarding some of the more recent p&s cameras. I had an Olympus Stylus Epic 170 that I bought at Goodwill for $8.99 in like new condition. It looked like it was just taken out of the box, and took excellent pictures. I've replaced it with a Canon Sureshot 180u which is one of the nicest cameras available, if a bit slow aperture-wise. The metering is superb, it has focus tracking, custom functions, and it's smaller than almost all of my classic compacts with the exception of my Petri Color 35. Some of the most recent film p&s cameras are a great supplement to any camera outfit or collection, and great stand-alone cameras as well, and definitely worth looking into. But to answer your question, my recommendation is the Oly 35RC, a superb camera to use with excellent build quality, a wonderful feel to the hand, and amazing image quality. I used mine today extensively at a child's birthday party along with a dslr and digital compact, and interestingly enough had more questions asked about the RC than anything. It's easy to focus quickly and the meter works superbly in almost every situation. Once you handle it you'll understand why it's so well loved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dennis_w3 Posted October 13, 2007 Author Share Posted October 13, 2007 Thanks for the responses, keep 'em coming. Does it make sense to go for the one with the faster lens (1.7 Canonet vs. 2.8 Oly)? I guess I could just go up a stop on the film to compensate though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Currie Posted October 13, 2007 Share Posted October 13, 2007 Another vote for the 35RC. I have also found that for print film at least, it doesn't much care what you use for a battery, so although it's supposed to have a mercury battery, it meters close enough with an alkaline. And, of course, as a manual camera it can function fully with no battery at all. By the way, Matt Orth got it backwards: the 35 RC is shutter priority, one of the reasons that it can operate with no batteries. The Stylus Epic is very nice, especially if you want to use flash, but like many of those little cameras, it defaults to flash or fill flash. I find it annoying to have to turn the flash off every time I open it if I don't want flash. Of course there are also XA's to consider, but good ones don't go as cheaply as 35 RC's seem to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard_oleson Posted October 13, 2007 Share Posted October 13, 2007 I have the 35RC and the Canonet QL17, and I've had an XA too. The XA was a major disappointment, the rangefinder is tiny and dim compared to either of the other two. Great lens, but not fast. On the other hand the tiny size is hard to beat. Aperture priority autoexposure, I don't think it had a manual override. The 35RC also has a great lens, also not fast. It's quite a bit bigger than the XA but still very compact. It has a mechanical shutter with shutter priority autoexposure; it does have manual override, but with the meter disabled. The shutter speeds are limited, 1/15 is the slowest (goes to 1/500 at the fast end). Shutter is very reliable and easy to work on. The QL17 has both a faster lens and a wider range shutter (1/4 - 1/500); same shutter priority autoexposure arrangement as the 35RC with meterless manual override. The camera is larger again than the 35RC but it still qualifies as small. Won't go in a pocket though. Very quiet in operation (as are the other two). The shutter is very reliable but virtually impossible to repair if something goes wrong inside the shutter itself (I have yet to find one in which this is necessary though). In my personal experience, the QL17 has won out as a user, because of the more flexible lens and shutter. Second would be the 35RC for more compactness and better long-term reliability. Lens quality is very good on all 3, for me that would not be an issue in the choice. I am not a fan of the Yashica Electros... they are huge, bigger than some SLRs, and their electronic shutters are battery dependent and have no manual override options. They have a loyal following though, lenses are good and the cameras perform well when the shutters work. :)= Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morthcam Posted October 13, 2007 Share Posted October 13, 2007 Oops, thanks Matthew, I did say it backwards, shutter-priority it is. Walter makes a very good point about the Stylus Epic -- that is a sweet 35mm lens, and the auto-everything works remarkably well. More pocketable than the RC (love the sliding cover design), if you can live with no manual override it's a great choice too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bueh Posted October 13, 2007 Share Posted October 13, 2007 Some of my favorites: <p> <b>Voigtländer VF101</b>: very rugged, very small, aperture-priority automatic exposure, reasonable price (at least here in Europe). Drawbacks (for you): 40mm lens only f/2.8. Very well designed "sleeper" camera with a built-in lens hood. <p> <b>Agfa Optima 1535 sensor</b>: very small, very light, somewhat rugged, full automatic exposure. Drawbacks (for you): 40mm lens only f/2.8, not that inexpensive (can be found for under $75, but not often). Very well designed camera with a big and bright viewfinder. <p> <b>Yashica Electro 35 GX</b> or <b>CC</b>: small, pretty rugged, aperture-priority automatic exposure, fast 40mm f/1.7 or 35mm f/1.8 lens. Drawbacks (for you): quite expensive (can be found for under $75, but only very rarely). Good and popular cameras, due to their excellent lenses well sought after and therefore expensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Collins Posted October 14, 2007 Share Posted October 14, 2007 Richard, you're one of the few people I've encountered that was disappointed with the XA. I've always been quite pleased with the results from mine and have always considered the lens to be a very sharp one. My gripe with that camera has been the disparity in light meter readings between the examples I've had, and the fact that I wish they felt more sturdy, although they've lasted for almost 30 years and still work like a charm. Aside from those two minor gripes, I think it's an incredible camera. I must agree with your assessment of the Yashica Electros. While I think they're wonderful cameras, they don't exactly fit in the compact category for me. They are beautiful though, and take great pictures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark_hahn Posted October 14, 2007 Share Posted October 14, 2007 I've owned an XA since they were new. the design is cool, but I found the results below f5.6 kind of just so-so. My stylus epic is better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sw12dz Posted October 14, 2007 Share Posted October 14, 2007 Dennis, When are you leaving on this vacation? Most "Classic" cameras are going to need a CLA (Clean, Lube and Adjust) before they are useable. Is this something that you are able to do yourself or will you have to send the camera out for service? I can't see taking an unreliable camera on vacation. Will that fit into your time schedule? All of the above mentioned cameras will suit your needs and are very good cameras when they are working properly. The only camera that I would add to the above list is a Konica Auto S2. Your Topcon kit sounds ideal. I don't know where you are located, but how about a recyclable camera as a backup? Walgreens has a 35mm P&S film camera for $9.99 and a digital camera for $24.99! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luis triguez Posted October 14, 2007 Share Posted October 14, 2007 Lens:Hexanon 38mm f/2 8 (3-groups and 4 elements Focusing: Turning all groups of lens in helicoid action in an arc of 48 degrees closest taking distance 3 .3 feet. Shutter: Copal Mat special automatic programmed shutter, B. 1/30, 1/650 sec., non-stage speed change, B exposure permissible at full lens opening, Automatically set to 1/25 sec. in taking pictures with flashes, X contact and built in self-timer. Exposure Adjustment:Automatic exposure adjustment with system using CdS, 1.35V mercury battery used as power source EE coupling range EV8 (f/2.8, 1/30sec.) to EV17 (f/;4.3, 1/650sec. with ASA 100 film. Film speed scale, ASA 25 - 400 4www.butkus.org Finder:Bright frame, magnification 0. 46X,parallax compensation mark, shutter speed and aperture scales, exposure warning signals and flash signal visible in Viewfinder. Range finder: Single-eye double-image alignment, color compensation glass, effective base line 12mm. Flash:Auto Flashmatic System with auto matic switch with flash gun or electronic flash light inserted into accessory clip, guide numbers (feet) 22, 32, 45, 65, 90, 130, 180. cordless flash contact and PC flash contact socket. Film Wind:Cocking in one action with cam era top lever, shutter self cocking in an arc of 132 ?, pull-out angle 30?, double exposure prevention. Film Counter:Automatic film counter. In dicates number of pictures taken. Film Loading: KONICA EL System Film Rewind:Rewound with crank as rewind button is kept depressed. Rewind button automatically returns to the original position. Filter: Screw-in type, 46mm in screw diameter. Dimensions:4-2/5" x 2-3/4" x 2" Weight:13-2/5 ounces. (379,9 gr.)<div></div> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerkko_kehravuo Posted October 14, 2007 Share Posted October 14, 2007 Easy again. The answer is Yashica Lynx 14e. Huge body, but the lens is pretty good and has that wide f:1,4 opening that is still pretty much usable. They also cost about nothing, maybe 50 ?. Kerkko K. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bueh Posted October 14, 2007 Share Posted October 14, 2007 Yes, because the Lynx 14E is an oh so compact camera with a really amazing auto exposure feature (uh, not). But the lens is truly amazing and one of my favorite 35mm lenses -- Canon's EF 50mm f/1.4 USM is piss-poor in comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dennis_w3 Posted October 14, 2007 Author Share Posted October 14, 2007 Stuart, Thanks for the CLA suggestion, I wouldn't even know where to send a cheaper camera for a CLA. The investment in labor alone would seem counter to getting an inexpensive shooter to keep in my kit for those quick situations. I'm hoping to find one that's had enough exercise to keep the shutter/meter/iris working, but not so much that it's going to fall apart on me. My Topcons and their lenses have never had CLAs and they seem fine; of course, they're in a controlled environment except when used and get regular exercise! You make a good point, though. Who does CLAs on these little RFs? Dennis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keith_lubow Posted October 14, 2007 Share Posted October 14, 2007 Yashica Electro 35 (45mm f/1.7) is about exactly what you are asking for...and the lens is very good, and fast. AND they are absolutely DIRT cheap. If you pay more than $10 for one, you have been ripped off. Any 6V battery available at Radio Shack that will fit inside the compartment must be adapted to fit, however, since the original large 5.6V model is no longer made (except by some funky Chinese company that I have not tried). To adapt the small 6V battery (which is both shorter and more narrow than the intended model), I place a metal spacer (sawed-off steel rod with SLIGHT recess drilled to accept battery tab) against one end of the battery, then wrap the whole thing (battery and spacer) in blue painter's masking tape until it is thick enough to be held snugly in the battery compartment. Works like a charm and the lens is fast and sharp. 45mm (almost exactly normal for 35mm format) is not a very fun focal length, though, IMHO, unless you get kind of close. Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charles_stobbs3 Posted October 14, 2007 Share Posted October 14, 2007 Of the cameras I've had experience with I would say no to the Canonet QL1.7GIII. The Canonet 28 has a better (sharper) lens, is quite a bit lighter, cheaper and more reliable and takes great pictures. The Oly 35RC takes good pictures, but feels too small and cramped to be comfortable. Yes to the Yashica 35 (GSN) in spite of its bulk, good lens and exposure metering and yes to the Konica C35 (just about any version). IMHO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_bellayr Posted October 14, 2007 Share Posted October 14, 2007 I will compare the Yashica Electro GSN 35 to the Canonet QL17. Both are good cameras that meet all your requirements. The Yashica has a sharper lens but the Canonet is smaller. For the Yashica you will need a battery adaptor for the Canonet the meter should be adjustedd for the higher voltage of the current battery (although there is some debate on this subject). The Yashica will cost less than the Canonet. As for the Olympus XA which as stated above is pricey is even smaller. The lens is not as fast nor as sharp at the widest aperature as the aforementioned cameras. The benefit of the Olympus is that it has a detachable flash. Olympus series cameras are good with the SP being the top of the line in that catagory. The Minolta 7s is good with the 7SII being even better. Expect to pay a premium for those two. If either one of those two are obtainable for your price grab them. Another camera which I have not had experience with but have heard good things is the Konica S2. The Minolta Weathermatic 35 which is uncommon and inexpensive would meet your requirements. It is good for up to 15 feet underwater, has autofocus, 2 lens lengths, built in flash, & DX coding. I had two of them both of which I had to give away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longname Posted October 14, 2007 Share Posted October 14, 2007 Voigtlander Vito Automatic, cheap and guaranteed to pick up chicks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david_m Posted October 14, 2007 Share Posted October 14, 2007 I second the suggestion of a fairly modern P&S, something like the Canon MC, Pentac PC35AF, Canon Sureshot or Olympus Infinity Quartz. All are excellent quality with super-sharp lenses and auto exposure. Of course if you are set on an antique, go for the other suggestions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dennis_w3 Posted October 14, 2007 Author Share Posted October 14, 2007 I am stuck in the 1960s-1970s era. I know there are some very good later madel RFs out there (so thanks for the suggestions of more modern gear), but I like vintage stuff: I listen to a pair of big Altec Lansing speakers and a Dual turntable (yes, vinyl) from the early 70s. I have a 1956 English motorcycle, a 1974 Boston Whaler boat, etc, etc. My Topcon equipment dates from the same period, and I use medium format folders from the 50s. I think its a problem for lots of guys my age. What a great time that was to be a young adult! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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