recently unearthed photos of the Nazi SS at play at Auschwitz

[robert_m_johnson]

I am willing to cut you some slack on the average German soldier, but not the SS.

[robert_m_johnson]

One last thought, I have German ancestors. I am not anti-German...

[johnw436]

On a lighter note, I wasn't trying to make a political statement by using Jane Fonda's actions as an example. The fact that any mention of Jane Fonda is now considered political is not under my control.

 

The point I was making was that the photos of SS officers lounging around a concentration camp could have been for propaganda purposes - just like photos of Jane Fonda at the Hanoi Hilton were. It could be said she might not have known what those images would be used for (that notion is incorrect, however, because she did) but in the end it's all the same thing.

 

The Germans were very adept at propaganda. The Nazis were flying their blimps into NYC, for pete's sake. They were not known worldwide as genocidal killers until after the war was over. Having photos of people relaxing at the "work" camps would go a long way when shown to a naive public. "Do you see any emaciated people? No? Because these are rumors you have heard and not the truth" could have been the tagline to the photo.

 

I didn't invoke politics. I used Jane Fonda as an example of a propagandist, which is giving her the benefit of the doubt. If you want to get political there is much to say about her but that isn't my intention in this post.

[Uncle Goose]

<b>Eugene and Goose, in the USA and I'm sure most civilized countries, we do not separate the GOOD SS from the BAD SS. It is amazing to me that you are attempting to do so. How far off from that is denying the Holocaust?</b>

<br>

<br>

 

Quite far from denying it, I live in Belgium and saw the camps (like Breendonk, a transitcamp and Nordhausen where they produced the V1 and V2) so I'm not denying anything. I'm only saying that a certain percentage was involved into the holocaust and not the whole bunch. I knew (most of them died by now) a lot of people who fought in the Waffen-SS and not 1 of them would ever have killed an innocent civilian, that was not what they enlisted for. They wanted to prevent the communists to take over western Europe, not to kill innocent civilians. And let us not forget, the Allies weren't free of warcrimes either, as for example, they didn't hesitate to machinegun helpless german sailors who were in the water after their submarine or ship sunk.

[eugene_scherba]

<p><i>Eugene and Goose, in the USA and I'm sure most civilized

countries, we do not separate the GOOD SS from the BAD SS.</i></p>

 

<p>If I were in the field fighting Nazi army with a rifle, I would

not be separating good SS from bad SS either. But neither I nor you

not at war presently, which means that we should leave our

partisanship behind and look at things in an objective way, not

tainted by emotion or painful memories.</p>

 

<p>Why, all of a sudden first person plural? Who we? As one poster

on this forum says, "You got a mouse in your pocket?"</p>

[robert_m_johnson]

Eugene, I recently became acquainted with a wonderful German woman that lived in Germany under Hitler during WW2. She told me stories about immigrating to the US after the war and having swastikas painted on her door. Hate is never pretty.

[eugene_scherba]

And?

[robert_m_johnson]

And...

 

I'm going to ask her about the SS, maybe her memories won't be quite as pleasant as yours.

[beeman458]

"Telling that all SS and Waffen-SS were bad people is just not right, even if a part of it was evil enough to kill millions of innocent civilians. And if you do so then you not better then those who hated Jews and other minorities."

 

Yes, I'm going to the country, to get away from this sort of immature, head in the sand thinking.

[beeman458]

As cultures collide and wane, there's a hated country today who's existence is being challenged. And when gone, who will the world turn to, to separate the madness which exists today as much as it did seventy years ago? Will photos even be allowed in the aftermath?

 

And there are those so naive so as to think that the only thing which exposes the truth, is photography as opposed to a willingness to recognize reality.

 

Is too.

 

Is not.

 

Is too.

 

Is not........

[eugene_scherba]

<p><i>Yes, I'm going to the country, to get away from this sort of

immature, head in the sand thinking.</i></p>

 

<p>Regardless of how it was expressed, Goose' thought holds. I have

known people whose kids say things like "let's kill all Germans." I

presume they realize what they said was wrong when they grow up, but

more likely they just forget it. I don't see how this is "head in

the sand" thinking. Have fun in the country.</p>

[beeman458]

"Goose' thought holds."

 

No they don't but since only a child's argument, void of historical insight is allowed, of course they would be expected to.

 

The world's governments are headed towards a world war collision and like the Sub-Prime mess in the USA today, the best anybody will be capable of doing is point fingers because greed and ego (Ex. Greenspan's book) prevents the truth from taking center stage or the right steps being taken.

 

Houses of cards "must" be allowed to fall.

 

Instead, the rich will be considered as the poor will continue to be subjugated due to the privileged excesses of the rich. The solution, shoot "all" the world's leaders and don't ever allow another leader to surface (anywhere) and sixty percent consensus be the deciding factor.

 

"Yes, I'm going to the country,..."

 

Yes, there's good reason why I'm going to the country. Three years before semi-retirement and we're both (wife included) counting. :)

[beeman458]

Let's see, where to live and what pics do I want to see or make.

 

http://www.nps.gov/lavo/

 

or

 

http://www.camerairaq.com/terrorist_tapes_photos/index.html

[Uncle Goose]

<b>"Goose' thought holds."

 

No they don't but since only a child's argument, void of historical insight is allowed, of course they would be expected to. </b>

 

Let me tell you a true story about the so called "all evil SS", I have this story first handed from my grandmother.

 

My grandmother and Grandfather had a barbershop in Ghent(Belgium) and they didn't like the Germans at all but once in a while German soldiers came into the shop to let their hair cut or their beard shaven. Both my Grandparents where very "king and Country" type of people and the photo's of the king and queen (postersize) hung inside their shop although it was strictly forbidden by the Germans. All of a sudden a highranking SD-officer (SD was a part of the SS and were very dangerous people) came in and looked at the photo's. He asked who they were and my grandmother boldly replied that it was her king and queen. The Officer smiled and explained that Adolf Hitler was kinda his king. He sat down and had his beard shaven, paid and then left never to be seen again. I don't have to remind you that this could easily have led towards an arrest and possibly a deportation towards a camp as being loyal to the king was considered an act of resistance and yet this "Evil" SS-officer did nothing of this, he was even very friendly.

 

So, I advice you to study the subject of SS and Waffen-SS more closely before making comments, this is not childish as the SS was a vast army of more than 3 million soldiers scattered all over Europe and beyond. Needless to say that the remark that those 3.000.000 soldiers were all bad and plain evil is insane.

 

The photo's showed in the first posting are what they are, snapshots of daily things outside their workshifts, these guys were learned that Jews and other minorities were the enemy and had to be destroyed. Most of the Concentrationcamp guards were handpicked, many of them were formerly prisoners doing time for murder, rape, voilent behaviour and other serious crimes. Even today a part of the population is capable of doing the things these SS soldiers did.

[robert_m_johnson]

"I don't have to remind you that this could easily have led towards an arrest and possibly a deportation towards a camp as being loyal to the king was considered an act of resistance and yet this "Evil" SS-officer did nothing of this, he was even very friendly."

 

 

Ya, a real nobel man for not imprisoning someone for a photo. Are you serious?

[beeman458]

"So, I advice you to study the subject of SS and Waffen-SS more closely..."

 

There's an underlying story here that's not being revealed, on your part.

 

"Needless to say that the remark that those 3.000.000 soldiers were all bad and plain evil is insane."

 

There's no such thing as a good or innocent Nazi, then or now and to state otherwise is either because one is party to or ignorant of the facts. Should those innocent soldiers have prevailed, irrespective of their affiliation or rational, Europe would not be what it is today. In war, there are no innocents, there are only sides; your side and their's.

 

Period.

 

Punching out for "The Garden" thank-you.

[robert_m_johnson]

"The Officer smiled and explained that Adolf Hitler was kinda his king..."

 

So in your mind you see nothing wrong with someone having the power to send to off to a concentration camp for a photo? How did you friendly SS guy use his power in other instances during the war? You have no idea!

[robert_m_johnson]

to = you

[robert_m_johnson]

"they didn't like the Germans at all but once in a while German soldiers came into the shop to let their hair cut or their beard shaven.

 

I will say this one last time, my relatives where killing SS in WW2, yours where cutting their hair and making chit-chat?

[robert_m_johnson]

Dude, if I was living in an occupied country I would not be cutting the occupiers hair for any reason. And I am a Barber!

[ellis_vener_photography]

His relatives were in a country occupied by an enemy who obeyed no laws. I doubt your relatives would have done anything differently, just tried to survive. Given the likely age of his parents they had already been through the hell of WWI. I wouldn't get all holy Robert. You have no idea what it might have been like to be in their shoes.

 

FWIW: Some of my background. Most of my fathers aunts, cousins, etc. were massacred by NAzis and their anti-semetic sympathizers in the Ukraine and Poland. My father served in the US Army on Guadacanal. My uncle was a USAAF navigator on B-24 Liberators based in Libya and later Italy. Both of my grandfathers, immigrants from Poland, served in the trenches in WWI as US Army "doughboys" only a couple of years after leaving Europe.

 

My father-in-law was born in Berlin in '44 or '45 and lost two older brothers, one to the Nazis (executed for plotting against Hitler) and after the war to the Russians who deported him and lot of other Germans to the USSR as "spoils of war".

 

On the other hand, Mr. Goose, the German people knew what was going on with their Jewish neighbors and the Gypsies, and the artists, and the clergy like Bonhoeffer (sp?) and the homosexuals, and the intellectuals, and anyone one else who dared to stand up against Hitler and the Nazis. They may not have known the exact details of what happened to them or where they were going but they knew those folks weren't coming back. And with rare exception, they opted to mostly keep their mouths shut and their hands in their pockets. Still the blood is on the hands of most of those those of that German generation.

[robert_m_johnson]

"On the other hand, Mr. Goose, the German people knew what was going on with their Jewish neighbors and the Gypsies, and the artists, and the clergy like Bonhoeffer (sp?) and the homosexuals, and the intellectuals, and anyone one else who dared to stand up against Hitler and the Nazis."

 

Before these groups were deported, the developmentally disabled population went first. No one is trying to be holier then anyone here. I honestly don't understand the logic of his argument.

[john falkenstine]

http://www.nysun.com/article/38082

[Uncle Goose]

Frankly, I don't understand why people are so eager to place an entire part of German army into the square "bad and evil", as said before, those who were dealing with the deathcamps were only a small fraction of it. Many others were just fighting on the usual fronts and while they knew what was going on they couldn't do much about it. It's like Bush and his Iraq war, many Americans don't want the war but they can do squat either, must have been about the same for the Germans back then, they realized they were just a very small part in a very big machine.

 

And I'm not defending the SS and Waffen SS because I like them or so but just because history is often written by those who gained victory and by this a lot of false information has reached the books. I even wonder how many SS soldiers you people have ever met, probably not many, if even any. Don't let you get fooled by propaganda, to know the SS you have to get an insight in their training, methodes, tactics and philosophy, not just read some weak written book but actually talk to people who joined them and even read the books they had to read.

[john falkenstine]

Unle Goose indeed. I strongly recommend you keep that name after your story above.