What is Methanol?

[simon_fallon]

Hi all, Is Methanol the same thing as Methylated Spirits? I've also heard (or

read) that it is the same as Methyl Alcohol but no-one I've asked seems sure.

[Fotohuis RoVo]

Yes, methanol is methyl alcohol: CH3-OH.

Methylated spirits is denaturated Ethanol C2H5-OH treated in that way you can not drink it anymore.

 

Hopefully we're running not into a language problem.

 

best regards,

 

Robert

[mark u]

Pure methanol is the same as methyl alcohol (chemical formula CH3OH). Methylated Spirit is not pure - it usually contains a purple dye and is not distilled for chemical purity to the same standard.

[mark u]

http://physchem.ox.ac.uk/MSDS/ME/methylated_spirit.html

 

http://physchem.ox.ac.uk/MSDS/ME/methyl_alcohol.html

[helenbach]

The 'methylated' part of methylated spirit is there because of what Robert mentioned - it is primarily ethanol (not methanol) made poisonous with a small amount of methanol. Usually an unpleasant taste and purple dye are also added. The spoilsports.

 

Best, Helen

[patrick_gainer]

Used to be that if you wanted methanol you asked for wood alcohol. Ethanol was grain alcohol. Both can get you drunk, but you stand a good chance of not recovering from drinking methanol, and if you do recover you may find you are blind. It takes a lot more ethanol to kill you all at once, but Vodka drinkers can become vicious Russians, or is it the other way round?

[mikeseb]

As long as we are going off the subject: :)

 

Methanol (methyl alcohol) is metabolized by liver enzymes to formaldehyde, which

destroys optic nerves and can kill. It can result from incomplete or improper fermentation

of carbohydrates, which is why in the old days from time to time moonshiners produced a

"bad batch" of lethal stuff. They also distilled it in old car radiators, and the stuff often had

high levels of lead that had leached from the solder in the radiators.

 

Interestingly, the treatment for methanol poisoning is an ethanol (beverage alcohol)

intravenous infusion. (Hospital pharmacies keep it on hand--it's ordered by a physician,

"Alcohol USP", like any other drug. (Can't remember if it has the tax stamp or not!) Those

same liver enzymes metabolize ethanol and methanol; the idea is that, by fully occupying

those enzymes with the drinkable booze, you prevent the methanol from being converted

into the dangerous formaldehyde, and it is harmlessly excreted by the kidneys.

 

"Denaturing" is adding methanol to ethanol, irreversibly preventing it from being

drinkable, and one speculates, relieving its makers from taxation. Gotta read the label!

[SCL]

Methanol (methyl alcohol) is the simplest of the alcohols having only one hydrocarbon group (CH3)-OH; ethanol (ethyl alcohol) has two hydrocarbon groups (C2H5)-OH; and propanol (propyl alcohol)has three groups.

 

Numbers 1 & 3 are toxic if ingested. #2 is intoxicating, and toxic in sufficient quantities.

[aurelien_le_duc]

I am working in a research biology lab, and methanol was very often used in multiple processes. But now, it's becomming to be forbidden, because, it's very harzardous. We have replaced it by ethanol (the one you drink) and properties are the same, but with no hazard. So if I can give you a piece of advice: NEVER USE METHANOL!

[patrick_gainer]

Methanol is a better fuel for some purposes. I used it, mixed with castor oil, in model airplane engines years ago.

[simon_fallon]

Thanks everyone, I had no idea it was such a hot potato! The reason I asked is that now and again I come across a formula (can't think of one right now) which calls for Methanol, and, like many other darkroom enthusiasts I'm trying to stock up on any chemicals which I may one day have a use for whilst they are still legally obtainable. I have been unable to find a stockist for Methanol, and it's surprising how many outlets don't seem to know what it is. Anyway, at least now I know it's not "meths" and if anyone knows a UK stockist I'd be grateful for the info. Thanks again.

[ben_hutcherson]

We have a rather large stock(40 gallons plus) of the old Spirit duplicating fluid at my school. It's almost pure methanol, which makes it ideal for those applications where methanol is desired but reagent grade methanol is not needed. If this is still being produced, it will probably be an inexpensive source of methanol. Just watch, though, as some duplicating fluids were a mixture of methanol and propanol-you want the stuff that's pure methanol.

 

As for the comment "NEVER USE METHANOL"-this is the classic knee-jerk "all chemicals are bad and dangerous" that most chemists hate. It's true that drinking methanol will cause you to go blind or die-this has been known for years. The vapors probably aren't too terribly healthy to breath, however use it with adequate ventilation and there won't be any problems. I would also suggest washing with water after any skin contact. In other words, be smart, and it won't hurt you.

[aurelien_le_duc]

Nope Ben, only skin contact with methanol is hazardous. Vapors too. If you can replace it by ethanol, it's better. We use so much dangerous products in our lives, we don't need to add some more. If you can avoid contact with methanol, do it. However it's your health, not mine.

[lowell_huff1]

In photographic formulas, Methanol is a solvent used to "put" phenidone and other accelorators into an aqueous solution.

[profhlynnjones]

Methanol or Wood alcohol in additon to being deadly internally is often added to racing fuel.

 

When I was in my twenties, I wanted to quick dry some film and normally I could use ethyl alcolol for that purpose. I didn't have have any ethanol so I used methanol. Very bad decision, it caused the film base to be milky and became totally unusable.

 

Lynn

[discpad]

Methanol has been used for decades as fuel for (alcohol class) dragsters & funny cars; and for open wheel race cars such as USAC sprints & midgets, Champ Car, and until last year, Indy Car.

 

I know: I have a 1960's vintage sprint car in our garage that was driven by Bob Harkey and Johnny Rutherford... And a 20 gallon drum of methanol in our tool shed!

 

By the way, from my time in the cosmetics & fragrances industry, ethanol can be supplied as undenatured ("Golden Grain"), which is taxed, completely denatured (CDA) (such as with motor fuels, as in E-85 blend pump gasoline); and something in between, SDA (specially denatured alcohol), which is used in fragrances & mouthwashes... And is regulated by ATF (Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms & Explosives). To use one of the SDA formulas, you must submit a sample plus the recipe to ATF for approval, then you will not have to pay the tax. For example, good perfumes use SDA-39B, which has diethyl phthalate added along with the perfume oils as the denaturant. Some cheaper colognes & EDT's use SDA-40B; and mouthwash uses [Oops! I forget the SDA formula!]

[big toys are better]

Lynn-- Methanol is a "hotter" solvent than the longer chained alcohols, and that is why is has been a problem as a gas drier in the past, and probably also acted too harshly upon your film. I believe both ethanol and isopropanol would work for drying film, and the latter is available cheaply in a 97% solution. Methanol is indeed quite toxic but still used in racing and in certain paints such as the denatured alcohol used to dissolve shellac. I've worked a bit too much with shellac and am now well preserved.... :~)