mark.brennan Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 Hi all - This is really a follow-on from my last post about editing negatives directly, without contacts. I appreciate the replies I received on that query. What I wanted to ask those who replied who said that they did edit negatives (and some, in fact, preferred it to contacts), is what kind of light table and loupe are you using for this? I'm looking at Porta-trace table, but unsure of sizes. I could actually probably live with their smallest size - 10 x 12" - and it's cheap! The 11 x 18 or 16 x 18 offer more realestate, however, which might be nice. I have a Schneider 4X loupe which I really like, but am thinking of getting a Schneider 10X loupe to supplement the 4X. The ProPeak 4X anastigmatic loupe looks wonderful, but not sure I need another 4X loupe. Wondering what others are using? Your thoughts and feedback on this are valuable to me. Thanks. Regards, -Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sumo_kun Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 Light table choice is pretty simple. Make sure the one you get is evenly illuminated. That is the main concern. Colour balance etc might be a concern too depending on how critical the aplication is. And finally, get the biggest one you can afford. Its a lot more comfortable to edit/view slides/negs on a big table. I use a 4x5 portable one made by Fuji. I shoot everything from 135 to 4x5 and it does me fine for them all. I'd still like a bigger table though. As for loupes, a 4x is fine. I wouldn't go buy another 4x loupe if I were you since you already have one of the best there is. A high power one is definitely useful for sharpness assessment. I use a Pentax 5.5x loupe and a Horseman 7x, which is my LF ground glass loupe. I could do perfectly fine with just the Pentax but I already have the Horseman so I use it too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Ingold Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 The Schneider 4x loupe is about as good as they come. Rather than a 10x loupe, which will have mediocre image quality, consider getting a 10x Hastings Triplet. The working distance is short, but the image is clear and free of fringes from edge to edge. You can get them from http://www.edmundoptics.com, a division of Edmund Scientific. I have a Bausch and Lomb 10x Hastings, which I've used for years. You can easily see the dots from an inkjet print or the "pepper" grains in Velvia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marc_bergman1 Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 "Rather than a 10x loupe, which will have mediocre image quality" Are you saying the, "but am thinking of getting a Schneider 10X loupe to supplement the 4X." is mediocre in quality? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellis_vener_photography Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 a 4x loupe is much better for evaluating film than a 10x loupe is. This is wh ythe Schneider 4x loupe was the standard tool for professional photogrpahers , art directors and photo editors. If shooting slides a high quality projector and a decent screen is even better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asher Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 Light table? We don't need no stinking light table!<p> Get a nice big piece of white paper (letter size is fine).<p> Place it on a table under a bright light, such as a reading lamp.<p> Look at your negatives over the white sheet, comfortably seated at the table.<p> FWIW, I find that when I edit my shots from the negs, I pick much stronger compositions. Especially when I don't use my loupe... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asher Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 From his 1982 interview with Bill Moyers<div></div> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Ingold Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 Mark, Yes, a 10x Hastings Triplet will have better image quality than a 10x Schneider (or any other photographic) loupe. What you get with a photo loupe is a longer working distance and a skirt at the expense of sharpness, chromatic aberation and flatness of field. For that matter, the Mamiya 4x loupe is every bit as good as the Schneider - I've used both but purchased the Mamiya. The Hastings Triplet is the closest thing to a microscope. As Ellis said, you can't tell much with 10x magnification. A 4x magnifier is the industry standard for a reason. You suffer even with a 5x loupe. High power should not be an high priority for you. If you want really high power, Edmund sells some portable compound microscopes with excellent IQ. I have a 25x, used more for engineering inspections than film. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marc_bergman1 Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 Edward, Thanks for the information about the Hastings Triplet. I currently use a Rodenstock 4x loupe for initial evaluation. It is fine for determining good composition, color, and exposure. The problem with a 4x loupe is that it isn't good for critical sharpness evaluations. I tried using a Edmund magnifier that looked like a small microscope. You may have seen it in their catalog. It had a Leica name brand. It had both 25x and 100x power. The problem in using it was that it was hard to get even illumination and your eye position was critical. What I would like to get is a magnifier with enough power and one that is easy to use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Ingold Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 Mark, I have a 4x6 inch light table, battery or AC operated, that cost about $60 and meets most of my needs. I can't lay out a whole roll of slides, but I can examine anything from 35mm to 4x5 with even illumination. A 6x8 would be better, but twice as expensive, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobmichaels Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 I use the 10x12" Porta Trace light table and find it to be the ideal size. Very bright and the illumination is very even. I use a Jobo 4X loupe. I went to a good camera shop and used them all. The Schneider was MAYBE, possibly, just a TINY bit sharper. But it was also almost double the price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellis_vener_photography Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 Garry Winogrand shot predominantly black and white negative film. For that purpose a bright light shining on a piece of paper was absolutely fine. For color transparencies you need a light that isn't yellow/red (the way a tungsten bulb is) and if you are evaluating a large number of slides it helps to have a large evenly backlit surface. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangoldman Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 Currently i use a bright light with 2 sheets of paper towel cloth over it (can you say "fire hazard"?) and use a 50mm lens held backwards. Works well enough to decide if a picture is worth the time to scan; where i really decide if it is worth anything. So, with that in mind, almost anything would be good to use; if you are scanning atleast where color corrections are a little easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark.brennan Posted July 12, 2007 Author Share Posted July 12, 2007 Hey everyone - Thanks for the great replies - you guys are great! I ended up getting the Gagne Porta-trace 11x18" lightbox; will try it out tonight w/ my loupe. Regards, -Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark.brennan Posted July 12, 2007 Author Share Posted July 12, 2007 Update: looking at B&W negs on the light table is wonderful - extremely bright and detailed viewing. As Ellis said, the 4x loupe is the most useful and provides a very comfortable viewing experience. Only thing now for me is to get used to the reading actual negative; of course, everything is reversed! I know it sounds silly, but bit of a challenge for me, since I've always relied on contacts. Trying to get a feel for how to tell exposure and contrast in the negative. Reading the neg on a light table does certainly give you a very good feel for the composition, but as a beginner, I find the vividness of the experience can be misleading in terms of the "punch" of the actual scanned positive! At any rate, I'm looking forward to learning more. Thanks for all the help. Regards, -Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff_z. Posted July 14, 2007 Share Posted July 14, 2007 Several years ago I purchased a light table from a company called Hall Productions. I am so well satisfied, that when I saw your question I wanted to mention them. I remember it not being the cheapest, but appeared to be of high quality, with a very attractive finish (nice stained wood base, made in U.S.A.) and that has been my experience. Still have not had to replace the bulb after about eight years. http://www.hallpro.com/index.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark.brennan Posted July 14, 2007 Author Share Posted July 14, 2007 hi Jeff - I appreciate the tip on Hall Productions. I've already purchased a Gagne Porta- trace lightbox and like it quite much, but will keep Hall in mind. Regards, -Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christopher_graham1 Posted May 14, 2008 Share Posted May 14, 2008 Still like the Porta-Trace? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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