How to End Working with a Photographer

[susan_davis2]

I have been networking with several photographers in my area and doing some second shooting with

them. One photographer who I have second shot with a few times asked me a short while ago to shoot a

wedding for her (sub-contracted). We agreed on some terms, but never created a written contract.

Recently, on the last couple weddings we did together, she has become more difficult to work with. She is

much more critical of my shots, telling me that my camera settings are wrong and that I should have got

this or that shot when I know that what I am giving her is very good quality especially for what I am being

paid by her. She is also now telling me I can't use some of the images for my portfolio when I know we

agreed that I could do so from the beginning. Also, I have seen her raw images coming out of her camera.

They are not anything to rave about, and there are technical problems that I could (if I wanted to) criticize

her about. Basically, I want to now stop working for her and I REALLY don't want to shoot this wedding

that she wants me to do for her. I am not too worrried legally, but I don't want to end the relationship

with any sort of negative feelings. How can I tell her politely?

[bdp]

Well, if she does any type of Google search on your name, she'll find this post really quickly and that will solve your problem.

 

You just need to talk to her and explain things. Avoiding them only makes things worse.

[mtrejo6]

Just thank her for giving you the opportunity to learn and for her mentorship but it's time for you to be exposed to other photographers to get a different perspective. As far as doing the wedding, just do this last one and let her know that you'll be going your seperate ways after this...or you can tell her that you are not available for whatever reason and end it there. I think that giving her a heads up is probably the best thing for you to do. Don't burn your bridges if you don't have to. Good luck!

[ellis_vener_photography]

"She is also now telling me I can't use some of the images for my portfolio when I know we agreed that I could do so from the beginning."

 

That's why you should have that in writing.

 

"Basically, I want to now stop working for her and I REALLY don't want to shoot this wedding that she wants me to do for her."

 

So just stop and tell her you are unavailable. You don't have too give a reason.

 

"She is much more critical of my shots, telling me that my camera settings are wrong and that I should have got this or that shot when I know that what I am giving her is very good quality especially for what I am being paid by her...Also, I have seen her raw images coming out of her camera. They are not anything to rave about, and there are technical problems that I could (if I wanted to) criticize her about. "

 

That's only your opinion. Do you think she might be as sensitive to criticism as you seem to be?

[alec_myers]

Tell her thanks very much for the opportunity to work with/for her, how much you've learnt and what it's meant to you, and that now is the right time for you to move on. Just keep repeating "now is the time for me to move on" and don't, ever, let yourself be drawn into a discussion on the reasons, because no good can possibly come of it.

[ellis_vener_photography]

great answer from Alec!

[steve_newberry___northern_]

Yes Alec's response is just right.

[stephen dohring]

If your pushed for a reason you could say you really want to get more of your own work and want to keep more dates open. People sometimeds take things out on others if going through personal things, she is well aware what's going on will get the message - you might get a big apology so be ready with new terms or be firm with moving on.

[robbie_caswell]

The issue of using the images comes up often and often becomes a source of bitterness.

 

I see no reason to really be offended to the point of using napalm. DON'T ever burn your bridges. It's just business.

 

I was grateful for the experience. I didn't spend money marketing for the brides. Didn't attend numerous bridal fairs. Didn't get past referrals from previous brides. Rarely did I have any connection to the B+G, and certainly never recieved permssion or a release from the B+G to use the images.

 

Just be honest and tell them your plans. It would be foolish for the pro to believe that a second shooter will be around forever. Likewise the second shooter who thinks that a pro would let them build portfolio on the backs of brides that they worked so hard to secure.

 

Just because they can't keep their word, doesn't mean you should recipricate. I would definatly shoot the wedding you verbally committed to her. One and done.

 

Step back, take a deep breath and look at the short term and longterm. Start seeking some craigslist brides and build your own portfolio of weddings. Because it's likely going to take you several months to get the ball rolling anyhow maybe the second shooting could go towards the expenses ahead.... insurance, sample albums, bridal fair booth add up quickly and cost A LOT!

[William Michael]

>>> great answer from Alec! <<<

 

Ditto, thank her and focus on the issue, i.e. that it is time to move on`: that will answer any question, do not deviate or be drawn into any further discussion.

 

WW

[hjoseph7]

One thing you got to get used to in this field is photographers with HUGE egos especially those that are not that talented. I got cut to peieces by a good friend of mine who now teaches, but used to be a photo-editor back in her prime. She was allways insiting to see my work, so when I finally showed it to her she pulled the rug from under my feet. I have seen her do this to several Professional photographers ! After a couple of weeks she calmed down and was back to 'normal'.

[joel rodriguez]

Working for/with tough people is part of life. Some times is the photographer, other times is the bride. Here is my advise: use this experience to your advantage by 1) using the critisism to improve your images and 2) learn to make a positive environment out of a bad one.

 

I have worked as a second photographer for a year. Enough time to observe that pictures are not everything. The environment you create with your clients is very important too. Even if you don't get images for your portofolio, you can develop other important skills.

 

Don't take life to serious. Live, laugh, learn and move on. You'll be a happier person and develop an outstanding personality that will attract better clients.

 

Just my thoughts.

[david_prouty]

No contract? No problem legally! Ethically, yes. If you said you'd do the wedding, you should do it to keep your word. But as to the images being restricted, no contract means the images are yours to use as you please. You own the copyright to your images. Ethically, you can't sell any of them, but certainly you can use them in your portfolio. Samples of your ability. Finish your relationship with this photogrpaher and get on with your own work. Tact is required, but it's time to break away. She has the right to criticize your images, but I have to wonder... if they are so bad, why does she want to limit your use of them now? Some people see a second photographer who is good as a liability instead of an asset. Perhaps this is the case, perhaps not. In any case, the good feelings have come to a point of almost non-existence and, again, it's time to end it.

 

Good luck!

[William Michael]

>>> Ethically, yes. If you said you'd do the wedding, you should do it to keep your word. <<<

 

 

I did not interpret the question that Ms Davis had agreed to do the next Wedding: perhaps the OP should clarify this sentence: has she (Ms Davis) agreed to do this (next) Wedding?

 

 

`I want to now stop working for her and I REALLY don't want to shoot this wedding that she wants me to do for her.`

 

 

WW

[annealmasy]

<i>"One photographer who I have second shot with a few times asked me a short while

ago to shoot a wedding for her (sub-contracted). We agreed on some terms, but never

created a written contract."</i>

<p>

Sounds like you did say you would shoot this upcoming event for her. You should honor

your word.

<p>

If nothing else, think of the bride who is counting on a photographer to be present. If you

back out, what are the chances that another photographer of your caliber can be found in

time? If this wedding is a year out, you might be able to discuss other options with your

boss. If it's right around the corner, you need to suck it up and do your job. :)

<p>

<i>"...when I know that what I am giving her is very good quality especially for what I am

being paid by her."</i>

<p>

Don't fall into the trap of judging your images based on pay! High quality should be your

goal FOR YOURSELF. If you've chosen to work for someone who does not pay you what

you're worth, that is your decision. Making excuses for (possibly) poor image quality is

never acceptable. It sounds to me like your boss is actually trying to teach you something,

which should be the goal in any second-shooting situation.

<p>

<i>"Also, I have seen her raw images coming out of her camera. They are not anything to

rave about..."</i>

<p>

Well, first off, any RAW file is not going to have the same impact as the final post-

produced image. A successful business isn't necessarily built on the unedited images. It's

the talent that goes into the final product that makes all the difference.

<p>

It sounds like you're just frustrated right now and you're getting all of your frustrations off

your chest. Yay! :) But now you have to breathe and move forward. Take Alec's advise

and calmly, professionally notify your boss that you're going to be moving on. (But first

honor your verbal agreement and shoot that wedding!)

[eric v]

Agreed. You expect her to uphold her oral agreement to allow use of images in your portfolio. Likewise, you should expect yourself to uphold your oral agreement to shoot this wedding. Then work on getting out.

[susan_davis2]

Thank you for some good advice. I certainly want to be nice and I do appreciate the

opportunity I have had to work with her. Some of the frustration is because of a clash in

style I think. Hers is more traditional, setting up lots of poses, portraits of guests at the

reception tables, using more camera flash. On the other hand, I enjoy more candid and

documentary style work and prefer the look of more available light over flash when

possible. She has been doing weddings for a while and I think her style reflects it. I know

I have a lot to learn and my style is still very much a work in progress, but I have an idea

for what I want to accomplish. Another photographer I am working with have more similar

styles and the relationship is more mutually beneficial. <p>

I know there is a lot to critize with my images. I always welcome contructive criticism. But I

am starting to think that when working for another photographer, sometimes they can try

to make you shoot the way they do. For some people that may be good. But for me I don't

think so in this one case. There are also some basic technical problems she has. I won't go

into detail, but it is more than the raw images simply looking flat or the color balance is

off, or some other type of thing that would be improved in photoshop or other processing

step. Some of it might be because she is somewhat new to digital photography but some

of the problems would happen with film also, which has left me puzzled about her skills.

<p>Anyway, we did have a verbal agreement that I would shoot this one wedding. I will

not do anything to hurt her of course. I will be as nice as possible and perhaps shoot this

wedding and then move on.

[William Michael]

>>> Anyway, we did have a verbal agreement that I would shoot this one wedding. I will not do anything to hurt her of course. I will be as nice as possible and perhaps shoot this wedding and then move on. <<<

 

Thank you for the clarification.

 

I retract my first comment and suggest you not PERHAPS shoot this Wedding: but in fact DO SO:

 

After the Wedding indicate that it is time for you to move on, as described by Mr Myers, above.

 

`Her images`, `your images`, `RAW files` all the other information whilst seemingly important to you, is irrelevant and only emotional static which is clouding the business issue.

 

Do the Wedding and then inform her it is time for you to move on.

 

WW

 

 

To Anne Almasy re your precise interpretation and etc:

 

It befuddles me how females can nail interpretations and read issues more clearly on most occasions, more often than men (or maybe just me).

 

Our Studio Manager (Female) constantly amazes me: I am always asking her opinion, like how she read `What does the Bride really want?

 

And I live with three women: you`d think something would have rubbed off by now!

 

WW

[William Michael]

PS Compliments to Mr Prouty, of course: he drew my attention to it.