eBay Reserve not met

[david_schwartz6]

Interesting -- in the past week or so two very nice pieces of equipment have

not met their reserve on eBay. A Rollei 6008 Professional which was bid at

$976.99 with lens (I think....) and a Deardorff 5X7 with lens, which was bid at

$912.75. My sense is that these are good prices....are owners simply too

greedy, or is the market stronger than I think it is? I have this fantasy that

the film camera will be like mechanical watches in the early 1980s. People

wrote off mechanicals in the 1980s when quartz watches became fashionable, but

they came roaring back in the 1990s, especially at the high end. If the same

thing happens to cameras, there is hope for those of us who worry that roll and

sheet B&W film might eventually disappear. Anyway, just musings about two

failed auctions in less than two weeks......

[pico]

Dream on.

[david_schwartz6]

LOL. But seriously, these are good prices, aren't they?

[robert x]

If you do an advanced search on completed listings only it seems that the 6008 should go for

a little more - looks like that Deardorff has been relisted - and he now wants $1,800 BUY IT

NOW.......I think with ebay you have to just bid what you are prepared to pay, and if the

reserve is higher, either hope they relist it with a lower reserve, or sit patiently until you find

one that you can get. I waited about a year to find an SWC that fitted my budget - you can list

your search preferences and they will send you an email whenever one comes up (though you

probably knew that ?)

 

RX

[db1]

The key to ebay is to know the market. Do the research before bidding. I buy a lot and I've been lucky enough to get some really nice items, for very little money.

[leicaglow]

I think people want to feel they at least have a shot at good buy, but if the reserve or starting price is too high, then what's the point?

[david_schwartz6]

Thanks for all these replies. My interest is not in buying anything right now -- god knows I have too much equipment already -- but in the direction in the market, as a bellwether for the health of the film photography business. I guess we'll just have to wait and see how things develop over the next few years. Thanks all!

[stephen_w.]

My Daddy always used to say: It's [anything, AFAIK] worth what people are willing to pay.

[sattler123]

My experience in buying and selling on eBay that reserve price auctions typically get lower and fewer bids than regular auctions. I decided a long time ago that I would list all my items with no reserve, no buy-it-now and bidding typically starts at $9.99. I have had very good success with that strategy. Many people feel they are being cheated when they see a reserve - it is not a real auction. When I see a reserve I always suspect that the seller is unreasonable and wants too much money.

 

Shutterbug is a great example for successful eBay selling (I have no affiliation with them) - all their items start at $0.99 and they never have a reserve, yet they achieve top prices for their items. Their feedback is also excellent, which helps of course.

[stephen_w.]

Reserves have always been part of the auction process, before eBay. The eBay auctions I always pass on are the high starting price with the slightly higher buy it now price.

[SCL]

Most auctions, eBay, Christies, Southeby's, build in reserve prices for some items...the concept is that people don't want to give away something of value just because not enough serious buyers bid. Having said that, I've periodically used a reserve on high end items I've sold on eBay, but usually just let the market determine the fair value.

[shambrick007]

"If the same thing happens to cameras.."<p>No worries, it won't.

[michael_gilday]

Trying to look at two items on eBay and judge the state of the film camera market from that is folly. Sorry, but I really think that's true. There's a lot of week-to-week, month-to-month, season-to-season variation, and you also have to consider the "quality" of the listings and the knowledge of the persons selling them. Large, clear pictures and a useful, knowledgable description can nearly double the final price on an auction, whereas people with cursory descriptions, one picture, and a one-day auction format probably get less for their goods than they otherwise could have.

 

There's a listing right now, $475 for a somewhat brassed "6x6" and "6x9" Koni Omega Rapid M and normal 90mm lens, which is about almost 50% more than *I* think that particular 6x7 camera is worth, and about 80% more than similar ones regularly sell for. Just looking at that one auction (and the $600 Rapid Omega 100 and 60mm wide-angle), you could draw all sorts of conclusions about the state of the film-camera market, but those conclusions would be just as erroneous as trying to define the market by the $45 Rapid Omega 100 I bought two years ago. (You could take those two RO-100 data points and come to some pretty wild conclusions about the investment potential of Rapid Omegas...)

[david_schwartz6]

Michael -- Very good points about eBay as a market indicator. I should know better! Thanks......

[Uncle Goose]

I never understood the use of that Reserve. It's very frustrating when somebody places an item you searched for so long only to see that you are the only bidder and you are stuck because the bid doesn't rise anymore. I think if you want to sell an item than just start the bid at the minimum price you want.

[bob_the_builder1]

Basically the price has gone down on a lot of camera gear this past year and some vendors

want to artificially set their price - hence the reserves and the lack of sales?

[savagesax]

You can always ask the seller what the reserve is AFTER the action. If it is reasonable offer something just a bit lower. I've gotten a few things that way. Other times they are way out of their league.

[mikep]

For the $2 or $3 listing fee, the sellar has nothing to loose, but much to gain. Realistic or not, they exist. Like real estate, it's good not to get emotionally involved. There will be a match for you soon. I use reserves to ptotect myself. Do I really want to sell that Leica M2 for $395? But then again, it won't have a $1300 reserve. I know it's worth $600-$800 so my reserve is in the middle. Simple.

[david_henderson]

I have on a couple of instances contacted the seller of an item which hasn't hit a reserve along the lines of "Look, I don't know what your reserve was but I'd be happy to pay x and if you're happy with that re-list as a 'buy it now' at that price". EBay are getting paid, seller is happier than he would have been with the item and no buyer, and I'm happy. Clearly its not going to work when there's a big mismatch but its a way of resolving a sale when two parties are unknowingly quite close together.

[wayne_crider4]

A 5x7 Deardorff was just listed last week either here or at Apug for $1500. I remember just after 9-11 I saw a 5x7 in good condition out in Phoenix for $1000, so prices on these items have been going up. The thing is, prices for some items have been inching upwards ever since 9-11 as the economy has been getting better and some camera prices have been falling such as the 6x7 Mamiya's. Just depend on the item.

[gnashings]

Stephen W really said all that needs to be said: its worth what people are willing to pay.

The only thing to add to that is that you should think of that in terms of averages - some people are stupid. Some people simply have enough money not to care. Some people actually do get cought up in auctions - its almost like a gambling addiction.

I generally have a set amount of money that I can spend on an item (usually less than the average going price) and I shop until I buy at the price I am willing to pay. With a little patience, and of course, some realism (ie. I am willing to spend $50 on anything with a Leica symbol other than a lens cap is NOT realistic, no amount of patience will overcome that), I tend to get the item I want at the price I am prepared to pay. I generally try to avoid buying things when I _need_ them, so as to avoid being pressured into paying more than I am willing to pay.

Like has been stated, the concept of a reserve is as old as auctions themselves - but, to be honest, I dislike it. Not that I don't think people should be able to set their limit, I just don't see the point of hiding it. I have no problems with starting bids - at least that way I know where I stand. Most sellers will tell you what the reserve is, by the way. And that just adds to my confusion why use it in the first place instead of openly placing a starting price?

I understand that there is the whole right to sell to the highest bidder at sellers discretion if a reserve is not met - but with all the tools at your disposal in the present time, the only way to be out of the ball park with your estimate of an objects value is by willful delusion.

And for a truly relaxing read, try your local buy&sell or graigslist - that's where all the people who think eBay is the devil go, and list their Canon AE1's with a Soligor zoom for $500 - for months on end. Its actually kind of funny:)

[Aoresteen]

The other side is if you don't want to sell for less that a given price and there are few buyers. If I have a lens that I will not sell for less than $300 and put it up for $1 starting bid, if there are only 2 bidders I might have to sell for $75, thus the reserve.

 

A while back I sold a rare Fujinon 85mm SF M42 lens. The first time my resrve was not met. I relisted and the second time it went for way over the reserve. Had I not had a reserve I would have lost over $300 selling the lens for the lower amount in the first auction.

 

Tony

[david_m]

The price of used cameras will have no effect whatsoever on the future availability of film for them. The availability of film, however, may have a major effect on the value of film cameras.

[q.g._de_bakker]

One silly thing with reserves (or is it me?) is that when you put in a bid that is below the reserve (you only know that after you have done that), then think you may perhaps spend a bit more, but happen to be the highest bidder with that first bid, no matter how much you bid, eBay will not up your bid.<br>So unless someone else outbids you, and goes over the reserve with his/her bid, there is no chance of acquiring the item even when your second bid is well above the reserve.<br>I like this we-don't-up-your-first-bid-unless-someone-else-goes-over-it policy well. But not with reserve auctions.<br><br>I don't like reserves either.<br>Yes, listing the 'reserve' price as starting price instead may put off some buyers. And it may be less likely that a bidding war 'happens'. But this i'm-ready-to-sell-for-an-undisclosed-amount thing is silly. What if, say, your butcher would sell you some saucages, but when you want to know what you owe him for them says "i give you three guesses". You'd think he had eaten too much dodgy meat and has contracted BSE.<br><br>eBay prices depend very much on 'the Market' too.<br>For instance, on eBay Germany (where i do most of my searching for bits) many items fetch quite realistic prices.<br>The same items listed with the restriction that the seller won't ship outside Germany usually go for a song: well below a realistic market price, and well below what similar items go for in the international market. I'm glad i have a shipping addresse in Germany as well... ;-)