Problem when shooting with slide film

[graeme_hodges]

Hi all,

 

I have recently being trying my hand at shooting with slide film for the first

time (Provia 100F and Kodachrome 64) and find that the vast majority of shots

are coming out too dark, but the bigger conundrum is that they all seem to

have a strong blue hue to them.

 

I am shooting with a Leica R6.2 and the metering has otherwise be spot on with

the other film I use (usually Fuji Superia 400, admittedly).

The slide film shots have all been taken in full sunlight (with/out tripod),

so it is confusing me at this stage. Processing is at a reputable Fuji lab,

although I do usually get them converted to normal paper based photos or onto

a CD (rather than putting into slide holders for projection).

 

Can anyone give me tips on what I am doing wrong/might try to overcome the

problem? Is slide film supposed to be overexposed in comparison to when

shooting negative film?

 

Regards

 

Graeme.

[luke_neher]

The golden rule with slides is expose for highlights (if in doubt). Are you sure it's not

tungsten films? that would explain the blue tint. You have to be precise with exposure

with slides. So do a test by shooting something flat and one tone (say pavement in full

sun). That should come out as a perfect zone 5 or middle gray. If it doesn't then it's your

meter. If it does, then just be more precise, learn the film more extensively.

[bernard_korites]

Since you are shooting in "full sunlight", it sounds like the scene is bright and you are not adjusting exposure on something that is middle grey. Try exposing in the mid tone in the scene then open the exposure by 1 stop.

[Troll]

The problem is probably in the lab, but since slide films have only 1/3 stop of wiggleroom you'd better run a roll through with bracketed exposures just to make sure.

[steven_moseley1]

Hi,

 

Firstly, this comment "Is slide film supposed to be overexposed in comparison" suggests you may be confused. Dark negs means OVER exposure, whereas dark slides means UNDER exposure..they are opposites remember..negatives and positives.

 

If your slides are too dark, then they are underexposed, but by too much. Slide film needs to be on the underexposed side, but not by much, the latitude of slide film to tolerate incorrect exposure is much smaller than neg film..it will test how good you are and you cannot simply rely on the camera like you can with neg film.

 

For instance, If I consider my cameras meter to be 'spot-on', If I shoot slides with it, then I would underxpose by about one third to two thirds of a stop, or half a stop depending on what method you use. I always rate the films about half a stop faster than it is and then rely on the meter with average subjects and then compensate accordingly with particularly dark or light subjects.

 

I use the UK Fuji lab, with consistetly good results. Where are you shooting and when? the blue results you are getting could simply be the light at this time of year. The light in the UK is always on the blue side and much more so in the winter.

 

cheers Steve (UK)

[ronald_moravec1]

Too dark means underexposure.

 

Basic metering lesson says you need to meter a middle tone area with a reflected light type meter. This type meter tries to make whatever is metered middle toned.

 

If you meter snow, now get grey snow. If you meter a coal pile, you get grey coal. So pick a middle tone or compensate by over or under exposing because you did not or could not meter a middle tone. Snow should be metered and then give 1.2 to 2 stops more. Auto tires/ coal need less exposure. Try 1 to 1.5 stops.

 

My key tones are summer grass, not spring, and tree trunks. You can meter the palm of your hand and give one stop more if you hand is in the same light as the subject. Leave lens focused at subject distance and do not shadow your hand. This is tricky.

 

All this assumes the meter and shutter are correct.

 

If E6 chromes are blue, the PH in the first developer is off. The processor needs to add acid or base to get it into balance. I do not remember which is which, but you get yellow one way , blue the other.

 

I know nothing about Kodachrome processing except that individual layers are processed separately and it is complicated, unforgiving, and georgeous if done correctly.

 

Blue cast may be the result of pics taken in the shade where the light is blue as there is not direct sun. Proper filtration at the camera is the answer ( skylight filter or warming filter )

 

If the slides are on color, but the CD scan is off, that is an error in the scanning operation and is correctable.

[kentish_townie]

I'm at a loss to explain the strong blue hue but when I used to shoot Provia 100F I found that

the true film speed was to closer to 80. I used to set my meter accordingly.

[john_shriver]

I presume that the slide film itself looks blue, not just the prints. Don't expect good prints from slides from a 1-hour digital minilab, the scanners can't scan slide film worth a hoot compared to negative film. If you want prints, shoot print film.

 

Compare your exposure meter to sunny-16 exposure rules. There are seasonal correction rules for sunny-16, in the winter you generally want to add half a stop.

[ellis_vener_photography]

When ishot film I typically setthe meter to anbout 1/3rd of a stop lower than the official

(And generally accurate rating) ISo rating. ISO ratings are made without regard to color --

just based o n a gray scale rendering. So typically I rated Provia 100F at ISO 80 --and then

bracketed around that.

 

The reason for bracketing is that there is a difference betwen the technically correct and

the expressively correct exposure for any given photo. My mentor, Jay Maisel, used to

bracket from one end of the aperture ring to the other -- but then again he gets paid

really big bucks for his commercial work.

 

The other reason to bracket is that labs screw up ,especially now that there is a lot less

film to run. Lack of decent processing is killing film at a faster rate by pushing people to

digital cameras at a huge rate.

[paddler_b]

How many rolls of slides have you had with this problem?

 

koorus

[iansky]

The other solution of course is to use a handheld meter. I use a handheld meter whenever I shoot slide film with my M6TTL, especially if the lighting is a little difficlult. I do however often check this with what the camera meter gives me and they are usually closer than a quarter stop.

[35mmdelux]

I make no compensation and shoot straight 64 for K64 and 100 for Provia. Never any problem.

[35mmdelux]

BTW I hope your local lab isn't doing your K64. Only Dawnyes is equipped for proper developing of Kodachromes.

[jtk]

Do you have some type of filter over the lens?

 

Kodachrome and Provia are entirely different beasts...if they have the same problem the issue isn't processing.

 

It's conceivable that airport X-ray (on the way to/from your dealer) or hot storage in transit or at camera stores is the problem, but that shouldn't affect Kodachrome the same way it affects Provia.

 

I tend to doubt that you have blue with both Provia and Kodachrome. Both are, of course, daylight films...not tungsten.

 

Are you photographing in unusual conditions...eg fluorescent lights or very high altitude?

[peter]

Its funny that you should raise this. I have not shot slide film for a long while but over the past week or so have been scanning a bunch of slides (mainly fujichrome) that I took on trips overseas years back. In the vast majority of cases they are just as you say, too dark and too blue. There are very few that are really usable as scans.

 

I think from memory Fuji film had an over sensitivity to blue (I recall it being discussed when I was looking for a slide film to shoot underwater shots with.) All of these are normal landscape and street photos but even there, overwhelmingly I have found that the photos shot in full sun in the middle of the day have to be colour compensated to remove the excessive blue hue when I have scanned them.

 

I think one of the old adages is that you will get better landscape photos in early morning or late afternoon - the lighting is more interesting and there is more ambient red and less blue in the environment. Alternatively shoot when there is good cloud cover which lessens the blue by filtering it out. The latter also has another advantage - it may fix your other problem. Slide film is notorious for being intolerant to high contrast situations and requiring spot on exposures. And with high contrast situations there will invariably be areas on the same slide which have overblown highlights combined with other areas with too dark shadows.

 

Its very very easy to under expose in this situation as many meters will take too much account of the reading from the brighter areas. In fact because a lot of my shots from several years back are taken in summer in full sun (after all this is when you go on holidays!) - guess what? Lots of deep, deep shadows. And this means that although I was almost invariably shooting with a Nikon f801s (which had then and still has very good matrix metering) the shots seemed to come out too dark in the main areas and especially shadow detail was just lost.

 

I think the earlier advice given by someone is right - expose more for highlights or open up a stop from what your meter says OR be careful to shoot in low contrast situations - cloudy days, filtered light or by avoiding midday settings in summer. At least thats what I have learned from my recent experience.

[max_fun]

I never bothered with K64, but I hated Provia exactly because of the blue hue. This is why for 100, I prefer Astia or Sensa.

[graeme_hodges]

Hi Guys,

 

Many thanks for all the input, very useful. Most of the shots were taken in full sun in country Australia and Mongolia. The Fuji lab I use is in Nanjing, China where I have been living the past 5 years. There are some issues with their developing (the least being language barriers/misunderstandings!), but it is the place the local pros use...so the best of an imperfect bunch to some degree : )

 

Things are crazy busy for me this week and I am off to the Harbin Ice and Snow Festival in NE China this Friday, so will try some of your suggestions out when I get back (not planning to take slide film on this trip, but might sneak a roll in...).

 

Cheers

 

Graeme.

[phule]

Shadows with Provia 100F are often strikingly blue. Whether this is because our brain filters out the blue or whether this is a function of Provia, I found either a warming filter or switching to Astia the best solution of all.

[roger_smith4]

Blue skies in cold northern altitudes may well look bluish and give bluish reflections off snow or ice- it's part of the scene.

 

However I think you're just underexposing. Try metering off of a grey card and see if that helps with the "too dark" complaint and you might try to meter off your hand while in the field (figure out how it relates to a grey card first!) to give you a known exposure reference for the scene before you.