***Kodachrome 200 discontinued***

[rowland_mowrey]

Ron;

 

Back in the 60s, when I first joined EK, Kodachrome was coated continuously and demand was very high. AAMOF, one machine was dedicated to it if memory serves. Of course, that changed when they went to single pass coating and Kodachrome could be done more quickly and at a higher speed. This, of course, is what you refer to. The finishing operation also was much longer and took quite a lot of staff to do in a timely fashion. The entire production process ran 24/7/365 with 3 shifts. This figure also includes production at Kodak Pathe at Vincennes where Kodacrhome was also produced at that time.

 

Demand began falling in the 80s, and the last product development cycle was cancelled. The 400 speed Kodachrome only went to a test market stage and the response to it and the other new Kodachromes was "ho hum". So, sales fell starting with the introduction of E6.

 

About that time, Kodak abandoned the last Kodachrome patent, which was held by Dick Bent and me. It was for the CD6 used in the yellow layer.

 

At the current time, Kodachrome is / was produced once a year, usually in November. That run of several master rolls supplies the entire world needs of all flavors of Kodachrome. That information is current as of yesterday. I have no postable / reliable information regarding the cancellation yet though.

 

Ron Mowrey

[tbs]

As far as K200's stability: I used about four rolls of it this year, in between my K64 shooting, as I said above. All but one of them looked great, colors all correct. One roll, though, definitely had a pinkish cast to it, particularly in some shots with medium gray to whitish clouds.

 

I was rather disturbed by this, and wondered if the batch was going bad. But the next roll of it (K200, same batch) that I shot, a few months later, looked just fine again, no problem at all. The only thing I can think of is the fact that the roll that had the pinkish cast was subjected to some rather stifling heat and humidity the day it was used in Cabo San Lucas. Doesn't seem long enough, though, to have caused it, just being one day and all, but maybe I don't know anything.

 

Strange...

[John J. Genna]

Would anyone be optimistic enough to state that perhaps after Dwayne's would cease their K-14 processing in the future, out of necessity, someone else would "take up the torch"? I've got 17 rolls of KM left in the freezer and am shooting too much other stuff to use it up in such a rush.

[kelly_flanigan1]

Diazo Blueline paper is another light sensitive product thats in massive decline thats coated in master rolls when required and "converted" when required into sheet products and smaller rolls. The useable shelf life is just months for the faster "speeds" and abit longer for slower speeds. Like film its a product that ages quicker with temperature, thus shelf life is effected by storage temp. Diazo Blueline's actual production volume probably would track with Kodachromes; which a simliar peak before digital. With diazo one is "processing" the product with a simple ammonia machine thus here the analogy ends; the K14 process actual cost are probably radically higher, maybe by a billion! One can expose diazo with the sun in about 15 seconds, and process it in an ammonia tube 2 centurys from now if diazo was still around.

[john_shriver]

My experience with PKL (Kodachrome Professional 200) is that it was always dead-on in color balance. Of course, it was refrigerated all the way, except during exposure and on the way to Kodak labs. It was always expensive, so I bought it "on demand".

 

We've read here that there was a recent coating of Kodachrome 64. They either skipped the 200 because there were still master rolls left (indicating too little demand to justify another coating), or perhaps they ran a test and were unhappy with the results, and weren't going to spend the money figuring out why. (Just recycle the silver and be done with it.) I would not be at all surprised if that Kodachrome 64 coating is the last one as well.

 

As for Dwayne's, they will definitely be the last Kodachrome lab. When they shut down, it's "Game Over". Ultimately, Kodak decides when Dwayne's shuts down that lab, since I would expect that some of the chemicals in the K-14 soup are not available from any other source, and that Kodak is who is "creating" (synthesizing) them. For instance, is CD-6 used in any other process? I don't think anyone's going to try synthesizing these chemicals just to process Kodachrome.

[james_mcginty]

Greetings Everyone,this is my first posting on Photo.net I have read with interest about the demise of Kodachrome 200.I had contacted Kodak recently concerning this matter.They say it was NOT being discontinued,but that they are constantly "Evaluating" how the film was selling.Of course,you have to read thru the "Techno Speak" that an official e-mail reply can bring.My advice to everyone who wants to shoot some K-200 is to shoot it NOW,while you can.

I have also purchased some K-200 recently,as i had run out.My rolls are from roll number 2671 with a "Process Before" date of 11/2007.I just recieved my rolls yesterday.The last K-200 roll i had processed came back perfect,all colors correct and tack sharp.I hope that we can continue to shoot Kodachrome for a long time to come,but i fear the handwriting is on the wall.Shoot it and enjoy it while you can...

[DB_Gallery]

James,

 

We are getting differing flows of communication then.

 

I have a source in Kodak who says in a basic sense that KL-200 was announced as

discontinued in November, no more coatings. But this acccouncement was lab and dealer

level only?

 

What is the deal then, go or no go?

 

I think it is toast.......

[jim_devlin]

I'm guessing that there will be at least a modest increase in the amount of Kodachrome 64 purchased in 2007 - the reason I state this is that I believe many fans (myself included) have been 'woken up' by the apparent discontinuance of KL-200 and are realizing that we'd better shoot and process KR-64 now while we still have the opportunity. The question is - will Kodak see enough of an increase to decide that Kodachrome 64 deserves to be continued - and can be profitable - as a niche product?

 

Jim

[kelly_flanigan1]

With process camera photo materials that got discontinued by Dupont, K&E (made by acme? :)); Fuji and Kodak there wasnt this "love affair" by the public's amateurs like Kodachrome. There is radically less whining about lith films, Super-K; Fujilith, Kodalith, P4, being killed off than Kodachromes current whining before its killed. The makers of these process camera consumable products killed them when it made a rational business sense; there was no amateur outcrys.<BR><BR>When was the last time the typical Joe Six pack had a slide show? The bulk of Kodachrome shot was by Joe Six pack; not NG magazine or pros.<BR><BR>If some teenage pop idol magically created a fad of using Kodachrome for a year or two; then the death sentence would be extended a few years. The Kodak CEO's graphs would have a temporary sales spike injecting needed cash to keep Kodachrome afloat abit longer.<BR><BR>There really is no mystery as to how long a product still is profitable; or any hidden secrets. It takes REAL SALES of a product to keep it profitable; not a select few who hope that Kodak will still make a few rolls for them in 2020. <BR><BR>Imagine if you show up at a business every week to shoot images; and each year the sales drops. The business might hope you show up from now to eternity; but at some point your are loosing money; and the goodwill offshoots are little too. Since most photographers are poor businessman they are confused as why Kodak does continue to sell products at a loss; but wont do the same for their own clients.<BR><BR>Folks dont even know the health care expenses of the Kodak crew who maintains the Kodachrome line; or their buyout if they are canned.<BR><BR>The current CEO of Kodak is super pro-inkjet; the WSJ says Kodak printers with 1/2 the inks costs for Joe Six pack is a goal. The consumables Joe Six pack gets at Walmart are mostly HP and Epson; the former HP chap has ink in his veins; not photoflo!:)<BR><BR>The sad thing about Kodak is that they could still have token few rolls of Kodachrome in Walmart in podunk; but seem to focus on always new packaging for the max zoom stuff. Once Walmart had a few rolls of tri-x and Kodachrome and I bought them; they moved. Now Walmart has 110 still by Kodak! ; and no Kodachrome or tri-x.

[reuben_c]

No comment.

[uli_heckmann]

What a pity.

I would absolutely love to shoot Kodachrome in 4x5, and I?m shure most of my collegues

would too.

The more the shift to digital, the bigger the need for instant beautiflu looking analog film.

[uli_heckmann]

example

[alex_hosking]

Why would you want 200 rolls of K200 its obsolete, and you will lucky if it will last you before they stop proccessing it completely.

[DB_Gallery]

"Why would you want 200 rolls of K200 its obsolete, and you will lucky if it will last you

before they stop processing it completely."

 

Well, for starters, it is not obsolete, it is discontinued. And from what I can gather, we have

at least two full years until you can no longer get it processed, most likely longer. I need

Kodachrome 200 for about 10% of my shooting of this project, that is why I only have 200

rolls, I have like 1,200 of 64 and a very limited supply of 25, less than 200. (Thank you Ed

Leyes for donating 60 rolls of the last batch of 25 that you froze, you da man!!)

 

If I do this right, create one heck of a buzz, hand a hundred rolls of 64 out to kids to

shoot, perhaps Kodak will see it through to it's 75th anniversary in 2010.

 

It would be a brilliant PR move for them to do that and I am starting to think that is what

they might do. But it is up to us to show them that it is worth it.

 

And it is worth it.

[randrew1]

FWIW, the original is 4x5 Kodachrome shot in 1950.<div></div>

[a._valerio]

"If I do this right, create one heck of a buzz, hand a hundred rolls of 64 out to kids to shoot, perhaps Kodak will see it through to it's 75th anniversary in 2010. It would be a brilliant PR move for them to do that and I am starting to think that is what they might do. But it is up to us to show them that it is worth it."

 

I'm doing my part...I posted in another forum about this, and I'm urging people I know to give this stuff a shot. I'm also switching to K-64 as my main color slide material, and will shoot it until it's gone and processing is stopped. Sort of like a mini version of your own project. I want to be a part of photographic history. This is too big a deal to just ignore. Perhaps others can do a mini version of your Kodachrome Project. Personally, I am looking forward to seeing the project. Hopefully you will consider exhibiting some prints and circulating them around the country as an exhibition when all the shooting, editing, and storytelling is said and done.

 

Best of luck.

[tbs]

I was looking at what I have planned for travel in the next year. It includes: a trip to Yosemite, a long trip to the Colorado high country, a possible trip to Mt. Rainer, a cruise to Alaska, and a cruise in the Caribbean, along with smaller trips to wine country, the Hearst Castle (and CA highway 1), and so forth.

 

Seems almost like I have my own private Kodachrome project going on. You can bet I will be using massive amounts of it on each of these trips.

[robert_johnson15]

Just received my 80 roll supply of K-14 from Adorama and Dwayne's. The KL200 had an emulsion number of 2671 and and expiration date of 12/2007. This is the fifth different month of expirations I have bought with that same emulsion number. FWIW, the lots came from two different places, B&H and Adorama. IMHO, it shows EK has lots of that batch and are finishing it as needed. The KR64 is dated 04/2008 with an elmulsion number of 1544, which is EIGHT more than the batch I bought last summer. The PKR64 is expiration dated 03/2008 with an emulsion number of 1541. I have no recent purchase of that type of film of which to reference. The 16mm Kodachrome 40 from Dwayne's (KMA455) had an expiration of 10/2007 and an emulsion number of 7270(type)2761 012.02 That's it! I guess we should be thankful it's still available if we look around.

 

Just did some checking. B&H has about 900 rolls of PKR short dated which they are asking $1 a roll less than normal. They are still out of KL200, but are expecting another shipment. They also only have approximately 300 rolls of KR64. Adorama has plenty of all three types at present, but a run on it could happen after all the talk of KL200 being discontinued. Buy and use it while you can!

 

Robert Johnson

[a._valerio]

FYI on processing according to the Dwaynes ebay store:

 

"Please be assured that you will be able to get your film processed by Dwayne's Photo for at least the next 3 years. The only Kodachrome processor in the U.S."

 

Assuming they mean "Kodachrome" when they say "film", this is good news. This seems to cover the 75th year of Kodachrome. As someone who is new to the film, I will use it 'til we lose it.

[james_mcginty]

Greetings Everyone!!! An e-mail to Kodak yesterday and a reply today makes it official: Kodachrome 200 is dead and will no longer be produced.I get the sense that Kodak wants Kodachrome in the history books.In their e-mail to me,they did inform me of their "E-6" Line of Ektachrome films and the ease in which it was processed.My guess is that Kodachrome 64 will continue to be produced,but it is clearly living on borrowed time.Again,shoot it while you still can.

Now,heres one for you all to chew over:When the day comes that the happy people in Rochester feel it time to pull the plug on this thing we feel so strongly about,would another company be willing to somehow continue making this stuff(would Kodak even allow it???)Just a thought.I know its far fetched but just maybe?Jim's Kodachrome Film formally made by Kodak??? LOL

[adamxisxrad]

Dan!

 

"If I do this right, create one heck of a buzz, hand a hundred rolls of 64 out to kids to

shoot, perhaps Kodak will see it through to it's 75th anniversary in 2010."

 

I would love to participate! I'm a 19 year old student at American University and have been

dying to try Kodachrome for a while. I've always thought the way it looks is fascinating. I

also read that Patrick Hoelck (www.patrickhoelck.com) uses Kodachrome and his portraits

are amazing. I'll do Anything I can to make this film last so I can have a fair shot with it.

(pun sort of intended).

 

Adam

[troy_boysen]

I just ordered KR64 from B&H. What I got was a brick of 24 rolls in a cardboard box remailed from Rochester, NY. May I assume that B&H no longer keeps KR64 in stock? The address was 1600 Lexington Ave Bldg 605 Rochester, NY 14650. Is this where these master spools of Kodachrome are kept? I will shoot KR64 as long as I can. I use a Nikon FM2N with a cable release on a benbo 2 tripod. I then scan using a Minolta Dimage 5400 (not II) using Silverfast. Silverfast lets you scan at ** 10800 ** DPI. My point is that even at 10800 DPI, the film grain is not apparent. This is truely the king of slide films! Yes I work hard to get sharp pictures, but there is a payoff. When you look at the slides through a loupe, the grain sparkles its colors -- just beautiful.

[troy_b]

Last summer (2006) when I called Dwaynes photo, I asked how much Kodachrome they developed. The answer was about 1000 rolls a day. When I asked who used Kodachrome the answer was train and airplane hobbyists, museums for archival work, magazine industry, and, of course, Kodachrome enthusiasts. I just want to take a moment to say to anyone who has had a bad experience in the last few years with Kodak processing that the slides I get from Dwaynes are expertly developed and spotless, no dust, no marks, nothing. Dwaynes is the best. Period. If you're in the U.S., you can ship overnight, pay for same day processing, have them ship overnight, and get your slides in 2 days.

[robert_johnson15]

Troy,

 

The 24 roll box/bricks of KR64/KL200/other K-14 films I recently bought from Adorama had that Rochester address in the upper left corner, but were shipped to the Adorama warehouse in Elizabeth, NJ. They then placed some other 24 roll packages, other assorted films in a bigger box and then shipped that to me by UPS.

 

Is what you are saying is that the Kodak box had your address on the upper right side of the label and the film was never shipped to B&H in Manhattan or the Brooklyn warehouse? I have never known B&H to "drop ship" Kodachrome from Kodak. I do know that they can arrange for larger quantities of film, like EIR that should be kept as cold as possible until used and processed, to be shipped directly from Kodak.

 

I have been told that coated master rolls of "cosmic" radiation sensitive films are stored in a salt mine near Rochester until shipped to Mexico for finishing. Not all film is finished in Mexico. I have no idea how they are shipped to Mexico and back. I understand the container is something like 4+ feet long, and two feet square with two locks securing the end(s) or maybe it's a lock that needs two keys to open? Having only seen 25 or 30 year old photographs of same, I don't know for sure if that is the way it's done in 2007. Maybe someone that works for Kodak, present or retired, can tell you if not a trade secret. I have also seen pictures of the Fuji containers and they don't appear to be handled the same way.

 

I can tell you from experience that KR64 doesn't seem to be sensitive to "cosmic" radiation, but the KL200 can be affected in a year or two to some extent.

 

Robert Johnson me@robertejohnson.com

[troy_b]

Thanks for the information about the master spools -- very interesting. I apologize; the film was shipped to B&H first. But consider my main points: B&H and Adorama don't keep KR64 in stock anymore; KR64 processing with Dwayne's is flawless; KR64 can be incredibly sharp; it can be scanned with almost no grain if you use Silverfast; 360,000 rolls of film a year seems really small to me; although you have to work a lot harder to use KR64 in some (many?) situations, it can deliver excellent results.

 

This thread seems to suggest that KR64 is technically superior to KL200. I don't ascribe evil intentions to Kodak. Consider the Q. & A. a while back where they said they introduced and discontinued motion picture film lines entirely on market demand. In this light, having only one Kodachrome product may increase sales. So, instead of KL200, I just use a Nikon Speedlight and a Lumiquest 80-20 bounce indoors. This is one example of what I mean by adjusting my shooting technique to compensate for the film characteristics.

 

I'm not sorry to see KL200 go; I'm hopeful everyone will switch to KR64.