First 120, faint-purple hue...problem?

[mr. john]

I just finished developing my first roll of 120 and ended up with a

very light/faint purplish colour uniformly along the whole film [maybe

a bit darker at one end]. I was using Tri-X iso 400 with T-max

developer. I developed for 6 minutes, though it did take me about 30

seconds before I had the whole container filled, and agitated for

around 5 seconds every 30 second interval. I dumped the contents when

the stop watch hit 6 mintues, but it took about 10 seconds to empty

completely. It took about 20 seconds or so to fill the container with

Kodak indicator stop bath, which I left in for 2 minutes. Then used

Kodak rapid fixer [the one where you mix solution A and a hardener,

solution B] for 5 minutes. Am I doing something obviously wrong? Is

this purple hue normal for B&W film?

Thank you.

[frank.schifano]

Not all films have a perfectly clear base. Tri-X is one of them. I can get TMax films to clear completely, but Tri-X always has some color to the support. It's normal.

 

BTW, the hardener is optional and not needed for films from Kodak, Fuji, Ilford, and others. Normally processed Efke films and films processed using some reversal processes are exceptions. They benefit from the added hardener. Otherwise, you're better off without it.

[discpad]

It could be a little bit of the anti-halation layer hasn't washed off: If you do a pre-wash you'll see the water coming out purple.

 

 

For TMax films, I put a pinch of either borax or washing soda in the drum before I add the pre-wash water: Either generic borax or generic washing soda will do as you want to make the water alkaline. [Just be sure to use generic laundry stuff: Besides being cheaper, they also don't have perfume contaminents.]

 

 

It could also be you need to re-fix, as the solution could have been weak and/or a bit chilly: Unlike the developer, fixing is a "terminal" process, i.e. you hit an endpoint, and leaving it in the fix solution for extra time is harmless. [but: Don't overdo fixing, either!]

[lex_jenkins]

Contemporary films use various sensitizing and anti-halation dyes that can be pretty tenacious. There's an entire section with several discussions covering this subject along with suggestions and solutions - scroll down a bit on this forum's home page and look at the sidebar on the right side of the screen.

[michel_hardy_vallee1]

You didn't mention if you used hypo-clearing agent, nor how long you wash. Lots of films

have an anti-halation layer that takes a while to clear after developing. Some older-style

films like the europeans ADOX or Efke usually clear with a pre-wash, but I know for instance

that with TMAX 100, the purple color disappeared only after hypo-clearing and full rinsing

(about 10mins in running water). Strangely I've never seen 120 Tri-X (400TX, not the 320TXP)

having any color in the base after fixing.

[mr. john]

Thank you very much for all the tips and replys. Just one other thing, when do you pre-wash and how long do you pre-wash for? Also, I'm not actaully sure what a hypo-cleaning agent is? Forgive me, I'm very new to all of this.

[joename]

I have never pre-washed, and I guess never will. If you use that

ilford method of washing after fixing (fill, 5 inversions, rest for 5

minutes, dump, fill, 10 inversions, rest 5 minutes, dump, fill 20

inversions, rest 5 minutes, dump) then you'll see blue come out the

first two times you empty your container. The 5 minute rests

in-between steps are key.

[larrydressler]

I also find Foma film is real purple. I think though this helps alot in scanning for midtones. I used a pre wash and fixed even a little longer but still purple. The only clear base film I ever remember was the old Kodak Copy film 64T. Then I shot it at ASA 10-25 and used Dektol to get a continous tone negative or Slide if I used it to copy a Negative into a slide.

 

Larry

[hilander]

John W,

Try a 2 minute pre-wash with inversions for 10 seconds each minute. That should wash most

of the purple out.

[micah_henry]

John,

 

Hi. There's one more thing which I think no one mentioned here. I had some purple neg problems with Kodak 120 film when I first started processing my own B&W.

 

I was baffled and frustrated with the purple-tinted negatives until I realized that, in my haste to load the film on the developing tank reel, I had left the adhesive tape on the end of the film which is attached to the backing paper.

 

During subsequent film processing bouts, I made sure to remove the tape (a purple tape is used on some films) completely from the film. Either pull off the tape (sometimes this could create static electricity and some risk of fogging the film) OR simply cut off the film right at the tape.

 

However, if there was no tape on the film you put in the developing tank, then disregard my post.

 

--Micah in NC

[mr. john]

So to "pre-wash" is to rise with water before you develop? [if not when?]

 

Yes Did leave some tape of the film, I will make sure I remove it completely next time.

[lex_jenkins]

The value of pre-washing is open to debate.

 

Ilford specifically recommends against pre-washing its films. And it seems to offer no benefit to Kodak films. In my experiments saw absolutely no differences in the final negatives. And the rinse water came out clear.

 

However some films, particularly European films (other than Ilford), incorporate water soluable dye that come out easily in a pre-wash. I do pre-wash some of these films (particularly Agfa and Efke films) because I often reuse developers, such as Diafine and Microphen stock solutions. While the aquamarine and purple dyes are pretty, I don't want my developers that color.

 

Certain developers will liberate dyes from Ilford and Kodak films. Rodinal typically pours out bright purple after developing Tri-X and T-Max films. The film base also turns out more of a neutral gray than with other developers.

[paul_hoyt]

John,

 

Pre-wash is also know as pre-soak. 2 minutes is enough to wet the film and usually the pre-soak is used to wet the film for more uniform developing action. Some swear by it, others claim it has no advantage. The pre-soak water will be colored when you pour it out. The faint-purple on reformulated films, and I think Tri-X has been "improved", can indicate the fixing process has not been adaquate or the washing process needs to be increased. Some of the modern films need 5 minutes of fixing in rapid fixers (Ammonium Thiosulfate) and 10 minutes in standard fixers (Sodium Thiosulfate). Your fixing time seems to be correct with your stated fixer. Is the Kodak rapid fixer a concentrate? Some fixers need to be diluted for use and then if you desire a hardener it is added. Concentrated fixers will NOT fix films if they are used full strength. It has been reported the purple tint will fade away when exposed to UV light.

 

Paul

[sprouty]

You know for a beginner this is all pretty confusing. I developed a roll of Tri-X last week and it cleared to a very slight steel gray. I ran a roll last night and the night before: both have a puple-ish tint to them. The only difference was development time (I was trying to find a personal film speed rating).

<P>

1 min soak with water constant agitation

<P>

8.5 minutes in Sprint developer 1+9 @ 68 deg's, agitate 1st 30 sec's then once a minute for 15 seconds.

<P>

1 min soak with water constant agitation

<P>

4 min Rapid Fix, constant agitation

<P>

1 min soak with water, constant agitation

<P>

2 min Fixer Remover, constant agitation

<P>

10 minute rinse,

<P>

And finally three 30 sec washes with water and Photoflow

<P>

The only change between the three rolls was the development time (the last two were 7.5 minutes, and 6.5 minutes respectively).

<P>

Right now one test strip is soaking for 30 minutes and the rest are on my light box.

<P>

I guess we'll see what happens...

[sprouty]

Ok, almost 2 1/2 hours later: the negatives left on the light table have lost a noticable amount of the purple'ish tint but they certainly do not match the clear/gray of the very first roll I did, but they are much closer than they were when I started. The re-washed strip is also less purple but not as much as the light table negs.

 

I guess since I'll be up for awhile I'll just leave them on and see if they lose any more tint...

[mikeseb]

I develop film in a Jobo. I prewash as is recommended for this processor. I get spectacular

results. I always get purple when the prewash water drains.

 

Sometime the films retain a tint, other times not. It doesn't seem to make any difference in

the final image. I'm fixing (alkaline fixer only) and washing the right amount of time for

archival permanence, so I'm not sure all of this fuss is necessary.

 

If it doesn't make any difference to the negatives' storage qualities nor to the final image,

who cares?

[sprouty]

I guess the question I had was does it effect the time during printing? And it seemed to me that the more consistent my negs were the easier time I might have printing them.

[discpad]

The purple hue can screw up some scanners: It is a form of base fog. Like I said above, a prewash, especially a light alkaline prewash for TMax films, helps a whole lot.

[larrydressler]

Foma film has a purple film base it will never wash out.

 

Larry<div></div>

[edward_vargas1]

A method I use to remove the magenta or purple tinted (dye) is to expose the film to sunlight for 15 to 30 minutes after drying.

 

Good luck.

[dave_pinke]

I just started doing 4x5, using a Combi Plan T and all Speed chemicals. I've had great luck so far, but tonight I tried to do the 'back to back' 12 sheet method. However, this meant that while well developed, multiple negatives had a purple tint. Turms out that washing them after seperating them for an extra 10 minutes got rid of the tint. I'm using Ilford HP5 and I do prewash. Thought I'd share.