Pricing question

[Rick Waller]

Thought I would throw this out to you folks. I am not a pro, but I am a pretty

decent photographer nontheless.

 

My son is a real estate leasing broker in Manhattan (that's is NY City for

those who are not from NY) and as a favor to him, I shot images of some of the

buildings that he represents so that he can post them on his website and in his

brochures. (He is just starting out and broke)

 

Some of the other brokers in his firm saw my work and decided that my images

were actually better than the ones that they had done for their buildings.

Several have asked me to shoot buildings for them.

 

The jobs are actually quite easy. Plant a tripod in front, wait for a break in

the traffic and shoot; some minimal PS time to fix keystoning, tweak color, etc

and I have the individual image to give the broker for his use.

 

Any idea what to charge? I haven't a clue. I don't think I need to retain the

copyright since there really is no future use for the image. I was considering

selling the broker unrestricted right to use the photo as he/she sees fit.

 

I figure someone on this site has more experience than I in this matter. I am

not concerned with the technical aspects of producing the shot, just the

selling of the image.

[photo5]

If it's just one shot, and they want to own the image, I would probably charge $400 per image per building shoot. That may sound low to some other pros in this forum, usually a buyout as it is called would command a price of $1000 or more, but considering you aren't a pro, $400 sounds about right. You could ask for less, but start there and negotiate down.

 

Good luck!

 

Dave

[ShunCheung]

There is a Photography Business Forum here in photo.net. You may get better answers there.

[Rick Waller]

Thanks for your thoughts. Actually, I would be delighted to receive $400 for such a shot, especially since I would coordinate several such shoots in the same day and could stand to earn 1200 - 1600 for less than a days work.

 

Now lets see, the Nikon 200-400 is about $4500. $4500 divided by 400 means I would need to shoot 11 such gigs.......:)

 

Well - it is nice to dream.

[Rick Waller]

Thanks Shun. Shall I move the thread or would you like to do it?

[ShunCheung]

Eric, only a moderator who moderators both forums can move a thread that way. I'll see whether Bob Atkins can do that as I don't moderate the other forum.

[photo5]

Eric,

 

You want to price yourself into a position where you will make money but also have them feel they are paying for a quality product. If you say you'll do it for fifty bucks a photo, they are likely to feel that they aren't getting a good enough photograph. Pricing is funny because common logic in pricing is the retail pricing model, where everyone wants a low price. But in pricing a commodity like photography, there is a sweet spot.

 

If you think $400 is too high for you, try $250. Again, you may not be a pro, but you already know they like your work so you're more than halfway there.

 

Cheers,

 

Dave

[leicaglow]

Let's see:

 

Camera, $5000.

 

Quality WA lens: $1200.

 

Good tripod and head: $400.

 

Computer and monitor: $2500.

 

Photoshop: $1000.

 

Total: $10K and change. # of $400 jobs to break even: 25. Add in maintenance, accounting fees, taxes, yada yada, and you're not making money at $400 per unlimited use image. Do us all a favor and price your talent higher!

[photo5]

Eric,

 

The real money in commercial work is in licensing. Generally you don't want to let a client buy the image outright, you want to have them agree to a certain usage term. Typical is one or two years. Then if you see the image being used beyond that term, you just make a phonecall and they send you another check. It's pretty nice.

 

The reason I suggested $400 was that you aren't a professional and they may balk if you ask $1250 per image, which is what I would charge. For me, I would bid the job, not per image. So say they have 15 buildings I may tell them the normal price would be $1150 per shot but I'll give them a discount and only bill $8,000, for example.

 

But billing $8,000 for the job means you better turn in some excellent photography. I would shoot 4x5 for that money, or at least use a shift lens. If you're just shooting 35mm digital, which has limited reproduction scaling, it's not worth as much. They may see a shot you take and want to blow it up to wall size. That's where 4x5 images shine. Plus you don't need all that post processing to get the verticals straight. :-)

 

Dave

[brad_w]

Eric - I suggest you be careful, there are lots of yellow flags.

 

1. Know your limits. All jobs are not as simple as you say. If they were, people like Dave

would not be charging what they do. Getting in over your head will get very ugly very

quickly. If you cannnot do the work, pass it on.

 

2. Always keep and protect your rights. ALWAYS. I recently shot a job that seemed like

quick-hit for a local organization. Now several national organizations are interested in the

images and resales are likely to quadruple the original estimate. You never know who

might want to use your real estate images...developers, construction firms, homeowners,

businesses...

 

3. Your son should know the market, or should know who to call to find out market rates

and typical contract terms. If they like your work and you can do the work, charge market

rates. If they only hire you because you're cheap, they're not the people you want to be

working with.

 

4. If you do this with any regularity, your cost of doing business will be significant. Be

sure you run your business profitably. I agree with that $400 would leave a pretty lean

take-home. (Low-ball estimates are that a photogs cost of business run $175/day...I'm

sure NYC is much greater than that.)

 

-Brad

[mark newcombe www.mcnphoto]

Speak to them and try to look at a time contract over single jobs. Its great to make a nice price ($400 per image may or may not be a nice price) but sometimes it's better to make a good price with volume.

 

What I mean is try to get all of the work rather than on a per job rate this may be something like I'll do up to X amount of of building presentations per month for $y. Say you are happy with $400 again I have not been to NY and don't know whether thats a good price but it does seem cheap as a one off but if the group of brokers listed say 10 properties a month, $4000 a month may be great then offer a sliding scale for any additional images after 10.

 

It's always great when you land these jobs unexpectedly but it's even better when you land all of the work exclusivley and can cement a constant income flow.

 

Offer more than just images on a disc, as a sweetener you may also package them up a DVD showing surrounding views, neighbouring building s, street views and even things like car parking lots, office supplies and other business essentials nearby, personalise this to each building. Include shots that will help the brokers sell the property, think of what you would like to know if you were interested in buying the property and include those types of shots.

 

You have an opportunity here to get much more than the odd $400 one off shot fee and if you present it in the right manner you may be able to really capitalise on this opportunity who knows you may grow a nice market for yourself and get a 600 to complement the 200-400 (great lens by the way and worth ever cent probably not the best for this type of work though).

 

Be proffessional and build up a spec presentation, use one of your sons listings for this, present to them all at once maybe using a conference room at a hotel, cut the hotel a deal by offering to include the conference facilities in the presentation which may bring your outlay down. Offer a sweetener like drinks or dinner to get the brokers there. 5 brokers 2 listings a month each will cover the $4000 based on $400 per shot. They won't get it cheaper and you can secure a nice $4k a month contract. As time goes by you will build up your own stock library such as local coffee shops, meeting places, conference venues etc and the job of building the each presentation will get much easier. Brokers factor in marketing costs when they list properties you want to get a slice of that buy offering a superior product.

 

I always go for consistant work over one off's but that just how i prefer to work. Remember to get the gig you may have to spend a little on presentation folders and the like but if you do it right and think you can pull the presentation off you could be set. Make the presentation great, practice it before you present, higher plasma screens etc and show off what you have already around the room, dress well, be confident and always act proffessionally.

 

Small fish are sweet but its always nice to have a lot of small fish.

 

Let us know how you go.

 

Regards

Mark

[luminous world]

I can't speak to the NY market re: pricing. Just a couple of comments. I have a good frined who started out exactly this way in Denver and he now clears 100k a year just shooting realestate. Notes:

 

Absolutely protect your copyright and retain rights. Make that clear. Take your images and then try to sell them to the developer, builder, construction companies, designers, anyone who has an interest in demonstrating their work on that building. That's where your profit will come from, selling the same image several times.

 

If it looks like this may be a path to regular gigs get experience and knowledge of studio/interior lighting techniques right away. Becauase the designers, developers, construction companies mentioned above are going to want interior shots and high end interior lighting is an art form in itself.

[gulhan_gulsun1]

This is a question for Mark.

You have given a great amount of helpful information about this issue.

I am just about the stage of launching such business. I have taken many residential buildings' pictures and surrounding areas. Ready to market them to the realtors. But something came to my mind since I am not accustomed to the rules and regulations here. Is there such law preventing photographers taking residential buildings(apartments)pictures and stocking them, selling them for making profit. Do I need property release from every apartment. I am in Canada.

I have been discussing this issue on the forum, but your business information forced me to ask you too.

Thanks

Thanks

[mark newcombe www.mcnphoto]

Hi,

 

I don't know about laws in Canada someone around must have a clue about this but if you are ready to launch such a business my advice would be to spend a little to get the advice of a proffesional on the matter. No point starting a business on a shakey platform it'll come back to bite you everytime.

 

Forums are get places to get ideas but probably not the best places to get legal advice to include in a business plan.

 

I don't do this type of business (real estate) but the advice I gave above runs pretty close to how I do conduct my business sports and group photography.

 

Regards

Mark