Need help developing film. (newb)

[matt_factor]

Problem: My negatives have kind have a purple tint to them after them

after developing in the unexposed areas. There's also kind of a

chystal-like texure in the transparency.

 

 

My current products used:

 

-Tri-X 400

 

-Kodak HC-110 Fresh solution B (1:30) @ 7.5 minutes

 

-Kodak Stop bath

 

-Two week old Kodak Fixer..I've tried everything from 4 minutes to a

rediculous 13 minutes using fresh developer. Yes, it's properly

mixed. Kodak suggests 5-10 minutes.

 

-Rinses for 25 minutes w/o Hypo clearning agent (had the same

problem in the past when Hypo cleaning was used)

 

 

 

 

I'm new to this, so please be kind. I've gotten some rude answers in

the past which I dont appreciate. I don't learn easily from reading

books about doing something I have very little expirience with. I've

found posting here helps a ton. All help is greatly appreciated.

[nuno_amado]

Hi Matt,

 

The pruple tint that you mentioned is an effect of insufficient fixing and/or washing. Usually, that purple tint is the anti-halo layer. All films behave differently, and I find TriX one of those that need more fixing than, say, TMax. You shouldn't care if Kodak says 10 minutes - 13 minutes is not at all ridiculous. To tell you the truth I usually fix my TriX films with times that go from 15 minutes (fresh fix) to 30 minutes, with frequent agitation. Don't forget the agitation, and to wash the films properly (which means to wash them in running water for at least 20 minutes, and to give them a final rinse with hypo clearing agent).

 

Take care,

Nuno

[ivan_dzo]

The purple tint is a dye. It fixes and washes out. I use two fixers, one after the other. with about 4 minutes in the first and 4 minutes in the second. then with a proper wash ie not cold tap water but 20c water, fill and invert 5 times, then empty, refill and invert 10 times, then continue with 20 and 40 inversions. This should get rid of your purple dye. In other words, fix fully and rinse properly should do it.

[doremus_scudder1]

Matt,

 

The purple is the anti-halation dye, as mentioned above. The best ways to get rid of it are: 1) Use a rapid fixer like Kodak Rapid-Fix or Ilford's Hypam/Rapid Fix (the name varies). Then use a hypo-clearing bath and wash for longer than the recommended time. Thirty minutes wash is not too much.

 

If you must use old fixer, test it first by tossing in a piece of film, either from the leader of the roll you are about to develop or fdrom a scrap piece that you have around expressly for this purpose (you don't? Well, you should.) Fix for 3 times the time it takes for the film to clear. This is the proper time. With fresh fixer, especially rapid fixers, this time is ridiculously short. I always fix for the manufacturer's recommended time or longer. I.e. if three times the clearing time is longer than the manufacturer's time, use that, if shorter, use the manufacturer's time.

 

This should "fix" your problems.

 

By the way, you can re-fix and wash your old films and get rid of the purple stain. Or, you can just print them and see. The purple dye will not harm the image (it may change the contrast a bit though).

 

Also, there are many good sources in printed form. I don't see the difference between reading on a forum and in a book except that you get a direct answer to your question. Do bite the bullet and get a good darkroom manual and just, leisurely, read it through. You will learn a lot and generate a lot more questions for this forum...

 

Hope this helps,

[gaius1]

Nuno, that is astounding. I find that fresh Ilford Rapid Fix does Tri-X in 3 minutes (4 inversions every minute) and TMX in 5.

[matt_factor]

Nuno said that 15-30 minutes is good for tri-X.

 

Anyone else care to confirm that? I want to know I wont be over fixing them.

[gaius1]

I am pretty sure you can't over-fix, the process just runs to completion. However I have never tried a time as long as 15-30 minutes. Matt I suggest switching to Ilford Rapid Fixer, mixed at 1+4.

[rick_jones5]

Your post indicates the purple tint to your negatives is a problem and asks for suggestions. Thing is I'm not sure it is really a problem to be concerned about. I have been using Tri X in 120 for many years. Recently I had occassion to develope a roll of the new 400TX together with a roll of the old version which actually had reach the expiration date about 2 years ago. The old version shows the typical grayish base color I have been use to seeing for as long as I can remember. The new version shows the same purple tint you describe. Both sets of negatives print just fine. Now I ask myself - should I change my processing steps in an effort to eliminate the purple tint or just accept it as a characteristic of the newer film? Even if a change in my processing could eliminate it why should I bother? As I first said, I'm not convinced it is a "problem" at all. On the other hand, the crystal like texture you mention really does sound like a problem but you are going to have to describe that situation with a lot more detail before I tackle that one.

[nuno_amado]

I agree: this is not a problem, as you can always adjust the way you print to fit the more or less "fog" on the base of the film.

 

As to overfixing: yes it's possible to overfix films. If the fixer is strong enough, and you leave the film, say, overnight in the solution, the fixer will start to "eat" the silver compounds. But not to worry - you can use times like 30 minutes and longer with no problems whatsoever.

 

Take care,

Nuno

[mikeseb]

Matt:

 

You've received sound advice here. Let me add my 0.02 worth.

 

Don't reuse chemicals; they are cheap and it's not worth the bother or risk to perhaps

irreplaceable negatives. Just use once, pitch

them.

 

When it comes time for you to buy new fixer, go to photoformulary.com and check out

their TF-4 Rapid fixer. It's alkaline, not acid, supposedly easier on the emulsion (and ilford

recommends alkaline fixers for its films, i'm told.) Plus, alkaline fixers don't require hypo

clearing agents and wash much more quickly and completely even without them.

 

I have noticed a slight purplish hue on some of my negatives. It hasn't presented a

problem. I'm not sure it necessarily represents inadequate fixing and/or washing as others

have maintained here.

 

Fix for 4 minutes for conventional films, 6-8 for T-grain films, and then wash 5-10

minutes. I've been doing this now for some months and it's worked beautifully. This has

enabled me to simplify my B&W developing process to two chemicals: development, 2

minute running water wash (instead of acid stop bath, minimal adjustment of development

time required), then alkaline fixer, followed by wash. Presto.

 

Forget about those who give you a hard time for posting "newbie" questions--assuming

you've searched the archives and found nothing satisfactiory. They are jerks who have

forgotten that they, too, were once beginners.

 

Best,

Mike

[kaiyen]

This is like the 6th variant to the process but...

 

I find that the dye washes out sometimes in the fixer, sometimes in the HCA. This seems to happen most noticeably with Delta 100 - one of the two always comes out fairly pink. I have now switched to a 2 bath fix _and_ a ~2-3 minute HCA wash. The second fix only adds about 4.5 minutes to the total processing time, and the HCA is a combintation of 30s of agitation and letting it sit "for a bit," while I clean stuff up, move some bottles around, getting the film drying bag ready, etc.

 

TXT still comes out a little purple now and then, but it's helped a lot.

 

allan

[hilander]

I give my Tri-X a 2 minute pre-soak in plain water before developing. It washes the dye right

off. Give it a shot, might solve your problem.

[lowell_huff1]

The dye is not "anti halation" dye it is a "sensitizing" dye. It controls the film speed. It is removed by sodium sulfite in the fixing bath. It is not improperly fixed, just not totally "bleached." The stain is not photographic and will fade with UV light. I do offer a fixer that most labs use for this issue called ARCHIVAL FIXER, it has ahuge amount of sulfite above even our other fixers.

[gareth_harper]

Use a rapid fixer. There are a number of different brands on the market. I use Ilford Rapid fix. It's a reliable product and saves you time. You can use it on both paper and film (though keep a seperate working solution for each).

I fix tri-x for three minutes in 1+4 rapid fix. For Tmax it's 6 minutes. I maybe up that to 4 and 7 minutes respectively if I've used the fixer a couple of times. I always wash for about 30 minutes.

Some films do have a slight coloured tinge to them, if there is any tinge it should be so slight it's hard to see.

I always test fixer that's been used before with the film leader, if it does not clear in a minute or less with Ilford rapid fix I dump it and mix up some fresh stuff.

Hope this helps.

[gnashings]

I have had this issue occur as well. The first time I tried Kodak fixer it started, and I mean ridiculously so! Now, I am almost certain I made the mistake somewhere - people who know so much more than I use Kodak fixers with no issues, so its probably me. But, having said that, I didn't care for making the mistake again, and frankly, it was just something I tried to see how I like it. I went back to Ilford RapidFix - and the problems went away. It seems that TriX still comes out a little more purple than other films, but not the way it used to. Now when I use TriX, I pre soak, use rapid fixer (1:4) continuously agitating for 8-9 minutes and then wash for a long time - probably twice as long as other films. No issues. Try the rapid fix, you may like it. And just to add a relative beginners perspective, I too was initially terrified when the negs came out purple, but in the end, they still print fine - so all my steps to overcome this are more of a case of being stubborn than anything else.

[lex_jenkins]

This forum has an entire section devoted to this subject.

 

See:

 

http://tinyurl.com/dtma7

 

Most of those discussions say pretty much what's been said here.

[akov]

Nice and complete answers, just one thing to add:

 

The proper time spent on fixing could also depend not just on the film type but the developer you use... I ran into problem using TMAX 100 + D-76, TMAX needed some extra minutes of fixation (overall: 8-9 mins).

 

Agitate your fixer in every 2-3 minutes to let fresh liquid to work on the film surface. If you see slight purple tints or mask color after fixation, don't worry normal tap water will wash that away.

 

If I were you, I would try some other fixer with your current developer or a different developer with the same fixer.

[joename]

I've got input - without much help, sadly... I recently was shooting a voodoo doll for the cover of a CD, and shot it with 3 cameras - 2 of them film, one 35mm and the other medium format. I used TMX 100 in both the film cameras, and developed them both at the same time in a patterson tank. The 120 roll was perfectly clear, and the 35mm roll was quite purple. It really suprised me - I've been hesitant using any more TMX100, but thought it an intresting addition to the thread.

 

Joe

[frank.schifano]

That's not surprising. There are some differences between the 35mm and 120 sizes of the film. Most obvious is that the 120 version is on a thinner base. The 120 version also has a backing paper that acts as an anti-halation device, while the 35mm version has no such device. That might account for some other differences in the application of the dyes to the film itself.