M6 - Flare?

[dan_roe1]

I realize that some people have seen flare with their M6. Does the M6 have flare as well as the M6 TTL? Or is this the same optical train and they both have flare?

 

<p>

 

Dan

[jay_.]

I've owned several M6 classics, still have two. None has ever flared

as described. I've handled dozens of them, as well as a few TTL's.

To this day I have no clue what people are talking about flare.

[andy_piper2]

The flare dates back to at least the M4-P, and possibly late versions

of the M4-2 (Leica tends to sort of overlap some parts from model to

model) There are many theories about what exactly was changed, but it

was something relatively minor - most of the big chunks of glass/metal

stayed the same.

 

<p>

 

The flare is white non-imaging-forming light from the slatted middle

window that overlays the second rangefinder image (both of which come

into the main viewfinder from the right via prisms. For me it most

often occurs (M4-P) in relatively low-level low-contrast lighting when

there is a light source to the left of the frame (say, shooting someone

on a sofa with a bright lamp on the end-table). The RF patch shows

partially or completely blank white with no focusing image visible (at

it's worst). I have an M4-2 (out of thefirst year production) which

does this far less than the -P.

 

<p>

 

Personally I think Leica changed the light path for the FRAMELINE

illumination system to accomodate the 28mm frame, which is so close to

the edges that the old M2/M4/M4-2 illumination may not have been wide

enough.

 

<p>

 

I've noticed another RF patch anomaly that seems to be a function of

the same change - in cameras that flare the rangefinder image actually

illuminates the 135 and 90mm framelines - cover the slatted middle

window and the frames are still visible AND actually have a moving

double image in them just like the RF patch!

 

<p>

 

This leads me to theorize that in the older cameras the light paths for

the framelines and the RF image were carefully segregated by the

optics, and that because of WHATEVER change Leica made about 1980, the

light from the two sources now intermingles to some extent near the

center of the viewfinder - causing the flare.

[david_killick]

I wonder if the flare has to do with the ridges, which surround all

the windows on the M3, being absent on the M6? Being made from zinc,

not brass, these would be harder to fashion on the M6. Just a thought.

[mostly sports]

Here's one description, and one attempted solution.<a

href="http://www.konermann.net/shade.html">the shade.</a> I never

noticed the flare issue with my M4s or M4-P. The M6 did flare, so I

bought the shade. Kind of cool, too, if you enjoy customizing your

fetish objects. :+)

[andy_piper2]

David: A good theory - but the M2/M4/M4-2 ALSO lack the M3's decorative

ridges, yet still do not flare the way the post-M4-2 cameras do.

 

<p>

 

And I would bet that the M6J special edition, which DOES have M3-style

ridges for a retro look, flares about the same as any other .85x M6.

Any 'flared' M6J user's out there?

[fotografz]

Will someone please tell me how to make this flair problem

happen. I've tried in all kinds of light and angles, and never had

it happen. I've never noticed it in all the years I've been shooting

M6s either ! I want to join the bitch session, but can't whine

about it until I learn how to make it happen.

[chris_chen]

Jay and Marc,

 

<p>

 

Flaring DOES happen. For me it usuallt happens when shooting

interiors with subdued lighting - Leica's forte, no?

 

<p>

 

The light source is up, just out of the 35 frame line - someone

reported 110 degrees. The patch goes white and it is very dificult

to focus, but possible when moving the eye around.

[jerry_pfile]

I'm with Jay and Maec. I've never encountered it, but then I've only

shot about 350-400 rolls since I got it.

 

<p>

 

Best,

 

<p>

 

Jerry

[Niels - NHSN]

I have used an M3 and currently own an M4. In my short Leica life

(less than a year) I have never handled anything newer than an M4

until the other friday when the M7 was introduced in a local shop.<br>

The first thing I saw when I lifted the camera to my eye was a

totally white rangefinder patch!<br> The lighting situation was

similar to the one Andy Piper descripes.<br> I was standing inside

the shop pointing towards a wall with a window to the left.<br> I

wanted to focus on some markings on the wall, but it was impossible

due to the flare. I tried to focus my M4 from the same position

without any problem.

[andrew n.bra hrefhttp]

Actually, after all these years I think I have figured out what causes

the RF flare - it is the abscence of any hand-engraving on the top

plate.<P>

 

All the Leicas without engraving flare, all those <U>with</U>

engraving, don't. Easy. :?)

[eliot]

Dan. I'm with Jay, Marc, and Jerome. I've been shooting with M4-P

and later cameras for many years (I've also shot with an M4). I

haven't noticed anything resembling RF flare in any Leica M. I can't

even describe what it is because I haven't seen it. BTW, I wear

eyeglasses when I shoot. I guess the problem has been solved (or

nearly so) in the M7 by additional coating of the window, but it

makes no difference to me, because they have solved a problem that I

haven't encountered.

[steve_barnett2]

In my experience of an M3, M2, M4-P and M6 TTL I have never

had 'flare'. But I think Chris Chen has hit a nail on the head by

saying 'The patch goes white and it is very dificult to focus, but

possible when moving the eye around'. I suspect that when the

seeming majority of people look through the viewfinder and see the

focusing patch white, they move their eye, perhaps unconsiously,

until they get the correct view. All without registering it as

a 'fault'. Some people however seem to plonk their eye where they

will, and won't move it until Leica solve the problem for them.

[Allen Herbert]

What flare,just where is this flare.Leica say they have reduced flair

on the M7 so it must be there,i cannot find it,and i wear

glasses.Will keep searching.

[budc]

I read somewhere (Erwin Puts?) where the problem started when Leitz

went to a curved rather than flat mirror to increase the illumination

in the corners of the viewfinder. I also read that Leica will have a

fix in the Fall for both the M7 and the M6.

[chris_chen]

OK,

 

<p>

 

I sit here trying to get the M3 to flare and I find that I can.

Where the M6 goes from light white to completely white (patch

contrast lost), the M3 goes from yellow to light white, patch

contrast is less but not lost. e M3 is easier to focus than the M3,

magnification considered. They was not severe tests, the light is

soft and indirect.

 

<p>

 

So in ALL cases the M6 flares easily. If the eye is exactly in the

center of the eyepiece it does flare LESS (not completely gone), if

the eye is slightly off center it goes white.

 

<p>

 

I'm watching the final four and there is a window above and to the

left of the TV. It is cloudy bright (soft and indirect) at 5pm.

With the lower right corner just outsite the 35 lines or just out of

the viewfinder frame it flares, and is definately worse if the light

source is from the left side (upper and lower). If the window is in

the frame it can be made to appear to flare by a mis-centered or

moving eye around.

 

<p>

 

Now, one can exaggerate the effect by backing the eye about 2" such

that only the 135 lines can be seen. If one sees all of the lines

ones eye is centered. If one moves the eye or camera a SMALL amount

such that only one set can be seen the sensitivity to flare is

increased.

 

<p>

 

Off-centered eyes are easier to do with: quick grab shots; vertical

shots. Lesson: zone focus; prefocus more; use a wide angle. i've

had it flare vertically so I had to focus landscape, move to

portrait, and wait for the "moment" to happen again...it did,

somewhat.

 

<p>

 

It's not an irritation to me, I live with it, and I'm happy that some

people can't make it happen. My advice is leave well enough alone.

Don't go looking for it. Who knows what ones reaction might be; it

drives some NUTS.

[chris_chen]

The auto-spell check failed again, and the text window is either too

small or I can't be more brief to make my point.

 

<p>

 

MY M3 is always easier patch contrast wise than MY M6.

 

<p>

 

Also, I tried a same size home made Lutz patch on my M6 (I'm a

perfectionist, and I'm paid to be one) by partially shading the

center of the frameline window with a piece of handle bar tape. It

helped, but I took it off because it dimmed the framelines too much.

I should've used a more translucent material like that one smart DIY

cookie that Lutz.

 

<p>

 

Back to the game - GO IU - Big 11!

[robert gordon]

I have used my M2 since 1970 and never experienced viewfinder flare.

I purchased an M6 in Nov, 2001 and noticed the flare in the camera

shop the first time I held it up to my eye.

[lutz]

Chris, <BR><BR>You have given a very exhaustive and precise description

of the phenomenon. Thanks for the credit, too. For those who suffer

from M6 whiteout, here's good news: For a limited time I have opened a

window on <A HREF="http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/

lutzkonermann/slingorder.paypal.temp.html">Shade sales</A>. And there's

more to be discovered...;o)

Cheers.

[robert gordon]

Not only does my M6 flare from light entering the front of the viewfinder, but I also experience flare once in a while from the red exposure indicator light. Both can be quite distracting.