To Avoid Water Marks on Negatives - Use Distilled Water for Final Wash and Photo-Flo?

[flying_tiger]

I've been using tap water to process B&W films at home (mainly 120

format) and sometimes there are water marks left on negatives. How

do I avoid this without incurring too much cost( i.e. using

distilled water for everthing procedure)?

Can I just use distilled water/spring water for the final wash and

Photo-flo and continue to use tap water for mixing

developer/stop/fixer/clearing agent/1st and 2nd round wash?

 

BTW, will the water marks show up on the final prints if printed

normally? If yes, any cures?

 

Thanks.

[frank.schifano]

There are two thing you can look at to help solve this problem. First is the quality of your water supply. If it is clean and not too hard, you are off to a good start. Most municipal water supplies in the US qualify in this regard. I usually filter my water through a combination particulate and carbon filter and this takes care of any possible problems in that regard. Second thing to look at is the dilution ratio of PhotoFlo. The recommended dilution ration of 1+200 I find is much too strong. My usual dilution ratio is somewhere in the 1+400 to 1+500 range which makes it enough to cause sheeting, but not enough that it foams excessively.

 

Water marks might show up on a print if they are obvious enough. Giving the negatives a soak in fresh, clean wetting agent might be enough to clear the marks.

[gareth_harper]

Yes and no.

Spring water will be no use, it will probably be just as 'dirty' as tap water.

Yes you can mix your chemicals in tap water. Toners are often best mixed in distilled water to increase life and save you money.

Look about for a cheap source of distilled water. Do you know anybody who works in industry, they often have water purification plants. Some garages and other buisinesses have water distillers, you may be able to come to some agreement with them, or just use it sparingly.

 

My film process proceedure is, Dev, stop, fix. Then I do some inversions with tap water before leaving it to 'force wash' for 20 minutes. I then give it 3 rinses in distilled water. Before hanging it to dry in the bathroom I run the shower and steam up the room. Once the steam has settled (and taken the dust with it) I hang the film to dry and turn the radiator up full. I don't use photo'flo or other agent, I always seem to get marks when I use that stuff. I use my fingers to wipe down the film to remove excess water. I still get some water marks on my film but they rarely show on my prints.

[kaiyen]

I had not only water marks but also some sludge build up on my reels (I dry film on the reels) when using all tap. I now use distilled for the last step in Ilford method of final rinse and in my photo-flo. That has solved things.

 

allan

[jtk]

Binyuan, use a change or two of distilled water (not filtered or "spring") and DO use two or three DROPS of Photoflo, no more, per 16oz.

 

There's no need for a humid environment (I do this in a VERY low humidity), but bathrooms are especially good for the purpose because they tend not to have carpets and do tend to have nice clean surfaces.

 

If your world is dusty, the idea of running a shower first does make sense because it'll help dust settle and stick, rather than floating around in the air and onto your film.

 

Water mark cure: soak in distilled water with a couple of drops of photoflow, MAYBE squeegee with wet fingers (not sponge). You might also try Tiger Cloth www.kinetronics.com or www.lightimpressionsdirect.com product 10890...also good for dirty slides. Seems not to scratch.

[flying_tiger]

Guys, thanks a lot for your help. I'll definitely give it a try.

I love films so much and I don't see myself getting into DSLR in the near futurn. I just don't feel like the digital flow. Films rock!

[ronald_moravec1]

Someone suggested a plant mister bottle. Use the distilled water mixed with some alcohol and a little wetting agent. Spray on hanging film.

 

My tap water works fine with 1:200 Photo flow, but leaves spots if I try to dilute more. Experiment.

 

I also use an ear syringe from the drug store. Wash well inside before using. Rinse out well when done and before use. I pick up the water used to do the final photo flo wash of film on the reel, then squirt down the hanging film.

 

Squeeges and sponges can grab debris from the film and cause scratching. If you insist, do only the base side.

[mattalofs]

After a lot of experimenting I've found the following works best for me.

 

Rinse with tap water. Once finished, use two more rinses of distilled water for 1 minute each with agitation the whole time. Hang the negs diagonally. Blow the excess water off with a Giottos Rocket Blower or canned air. No water spots. No photoflo crud. Negs dry in about 1.5 hours.

[j.w.]

I process mainly sheet film these days, and have eliminated dust and water mark issues by the following proceedure (for sheet film):

 

1) 1st final rinse in distilled water, after normal post-process rinsing;

 

2) 2nd final rinse for 30 seconds, with gentle agitation, in tray of 1:5 ratio of 90+% IPA (isopropyl alcohol) and distilled water. The ratio of IPA to H2O doesn't seem to be critical, but you need enough IPA to quickly evaporate the water;

 

3) Immediately hang up film diagonally in dust-free environment;

 

4) Wick off excess water from lower corner once after 30 minutes, then don't disturb until completely dry.

[ric_johnson1]

I don't think you need anything other then tap water... unless your water is really bad, then you should use distilled or bottled water. But always use Photo-Flo. I use 1 cap of Photo-Flo (Photo-Flo's bottle cap) to 1 liter of water. First I wait until the wash is done, then I remove the film from the reel and drip the film 3 times into the Photo-Flo. Hang the film so that any water will drip down to the floor, then place your index and middle finger into the graduate with Photo-Flo and squeegee the film one time and only one time. All the water should be gone from the negatives. But remember, when you squeegee the film make sure you don't scratch the neg's. If you mix the Photo-Flo when your mixing all the chemicals, the "foam" won't be there when your ready to drip the neg's into the graduate.

[kaiyen]

1 _cap_? That's like 30x as much photo-flo as I use, unless you're working with on tiny, tiny cap.

 

I put in 4 drops with an eye dropper per liter of water.

 

allan

[jtk]

Lots of people have dirty water. It's a real issue.

 

Photoflo itself will make marks if you use too much..just a couple of drops will do the job. It's just a simple detergent.

[klix]

1 ltr water

 

30 ml isoprophyl (rubbing) Alcohol

 

2.5ml PhotoFlo for 2 minutes.

 

Hang and dry.

[chris_waller]

I use either Paterson wetting-agent at 2-4 drops per 100 ml water, but, failing Paterson, I use Tetanal Mirasol. If you still have a problem then use distilled water plus wetting-agent for the final rinse. Instead of distilled water I collect the water and ice from the fridge when I defrost it, filtering it through a coffee filter in a plastic funnel.

[melvin_bramley]

I had problems with water marks for some time. My cure was to install a good filter & then,using a home made film dryer, force air dry the negatives.No problems since.I don't even use photoflo. As to cures for water marks; I have never found one.

[jon_noble]

I have never had any problems with film development going wrong due to water. Only times when its gone wrong is when i had greasy fingers and left 1side of my roll marked all the way along due to dragging my thumb. Other time is when i was trying to prevent drying marks by using some stuff (don know what its called. its in some crazy ratio 1:500ml) and it ruined my negs.

 

Somebody is bound to shout at me for saying this but distilled water talk (to me) is a load of guff. 5-10min bath in running water and hang to dry with it slightly slanted. Drying it slanted means if you do get drying marks (due to water running down the strip) it'll only run down the edge (mostly). Roger Hicks suggested that one but i shove mine in a film dryer.

 

Im so going to get slated

[lex_jenkins]

Ditto the suggestion to hang the negatives diagonally. Gravity forces the water toward the lower edge and drips off the lowest corner of the strip. Much more effective than hanging vertically, altho' it requires more space.

 

I use a pair of hemostats (surgical clamps) as a weight for the lower corner of the strip.

[bobmichaels]

I use 2 or 3 drops of Photo Flo per reel in ordinary tap water then a rubber squeege that has been pre wet in that solution. I just hang vertically in the shower.

 

I never have dust, never have water spots. And I've never had a scratch in a few thousand rolls.

[jonathan_reynolds]

I live in a very hard water area, and this used to be a real issue for me when I was first learning. I tried various things. Nowadays I just use the hard tap water and add Miradol anti-static anti-fungal wetting agent to the final rinse. I shake the tank reel as hard as I can before removing the film and hanging to dry (takes about 20 minutes). No problems whatever for years now.

[roger_hicks1]

You can over-use Photo-Flo but you can also use too little to have any real effect. In the VERY hard water area where I live I had to go up from my former 'few drops' to roughly 1+200 (2 ml > 450ml water).

 

Cheers,

 

Roger