Mint boxed (unused) D1X or D200 ?

[terry_rory]

Simple question really.

 

I have found a Mint As New/Boxed D1X for 150 GBP less than the RRP of

the new D200 when it apears in a months time.

 

Not being a pixel freak and currently owning a D70 I am considering

the D1X as an option.

 

I was impressed by Shun's exhortation of the MultiCam 2000 11/9

focussing system and of course the build quality of the D1X goes

without saying.

 

This example (D1X) is unused/mint and is at a trusted dealer whom I

have used many times before for both new and used goods. So the

shutter count is currently zero!

 

What would you do if, like me, you owned a D70 and wanted to upgrade?

 

In either event the D70 will be kept as spare/backup.

 

(Funds do not allow D2X. It can only be the options I have given

above. Sorry but I have other priorities and cannot allott as much to

my photography budget as some people.)

[terry_rory]

Oops. Forgot one thing. Will the D1X work OK with AI-s lenses? Metering, apertures etc? Thanks. This point is important.

[erickpro]

I'd be tempted for the D1x but it really depends on your photography. Do you really need the Af2000 ? If not, you can wait for the D200 since it looks very nice.

[douglas_green1]

Get the D200. Twice the resolution, and much better battery life and cost. And much lighter and smaller. Do not dismiss the improvements in power management and battery efficiency that have been made in the past four years. This will be THE most significant operational difference between these cameras, by far.

[ellis_vener_photography]

D200 with no hesitation.

[ShunCheung]

The D1X is based on a 5 to 6 year-old design, from the very early part of the digital era. IMO it has to be really cheap for that to be worthwhile today. In today's standards, the Multi-CAM 1300 used in the F5, F100 and all D1's is fairly out of date now, but that might not be an issue if you don't care about AF performance.

 

Any body from the D1 family can meter with no-CPU lenses, in center weighted and spot modes. You must have a CPU in the lens to get matrix metering. The same is true for the F5 and F100.

[terry_rory]

Thanks for your input all.

 

OK I read a comparison review (D2X/D1X) where it erroneously stated both used the Multi-CAM 2000 AF system.

 

The D1X I found is 1150 GBP, D200 is set to be 1300 GBP upon launch.

 

However the responses here have swung me now. Think I will pass on the D1X then. (How did one end up being new/unused MIB after 5 years?)

 

I was looking at different options after Shun gave the deficiencies of prosumer focussing systems a good 'going over' in a recent thread. Made me wonder if the D200 really would be that much of a step up from my D70.

 

Maybe I should save harder and wait longer and see if the D2X drops in the next few months to meet my budget half way.

 

Although it is important for me to have manual focus AI-s capability (with metering) it is just as important to have good AF as well.

 

Also shutter longevity. I know D200 money is peanuts to the pros here but to me it will represent a significant portion of my photography budget for the year and I need to be confident that it wont fail a few cycles after the guarantee expires! The D70 is doing well so far (knock on wood) but I expect even longer service from a camera that costs twice as much.

[ShunCheung]

Trevor, please keep in mind that some of my wildlife work heavily depends on a good AF system. Earlier this year, the AF on my D100 frustrated me to no end. However, depending on your needs, AF may or may not be an issue. If you are generally happy with the AF on the D70, which is essentially the same Multi-CAM 900 as on the D100, the chance is that you'll be happy with Multi-CAM 1000 on the D200. But most of us don't know for sure until we have a D200 in our hands for some real-life testing.

 

Personally, I need cross-type AF points. So having only 1 cross-type out of the 11 on the D200 is not good news for me.

 

The Multi-CAM 1300 on the F5, F100 and D1 have 3 cross-type AF points, but that is 1996 technology.

[tomweis]

D200 - no brainer. The D1x's poor battery performance and lack of iTTL alone make this

an easy decision.

[Richard Williams]

I couldn't help being amused by Shun's comment that CAM-1300 is only OK "if you don't care about AF performance", a bit like when someone says that a 2GHz PC might be acceptable for simple word processing, or Photoshop 7 is just about adequate as a basic image editor. Although now superseded by CAM-2000, the older module still performs extremely well, and is in a completely different league to the D70's mediocre CAM-900. We'll have to wait for some proper reviews to see if CAM-1000 is anything like as good in practice, despite the extra sensors (the single X-sensor isn't a great sign). OTOH, unless you really need the better AF, viewfinder, and durability the D1X doesn't look like a great upgrade to the D70 at this stage (and D1X prices will probably drop further after the D200 is launched).

[ShunCheung]

Wow Richard, please take a closer look at what I wrote above. Either provide an exact quote or not bother quoting. My main problem with the Multi-CAM 1300 is not the AF speed, but rather the location of those 5 AF points, especially on a full 24x36mm film body. After using the D2X for a while, I recently picked up my F5 and I couldn't believe that I lived with 5 AF points all crowded in the center of the frame for so many years. But that is another topic. On a D1X body, because of the smaller sensor, those 5 AF points will appear to be more spreaded out.

[Richard Williams]

Sorry Shun, not getting at you here! When you wrote "In today's standards, the Multi-CAM 1300 used in the F5, F100 and all D1's is fairly out of date now, but that might not be an issue if you don't care about AF performance" I assumed you meant, well, just that (you didn't mention the sensor spread, and I hadn't read your second post when I replied to your first). The arrangement of the sensors is an interesting point - would you trade the CAM-1300 arrangement for CAM-1000 with only a single X-sensor..? But perhaps the new design and software of the latest module (and especially the ability to combine multiple side sensors in wide-area mode) will be more effective than some people have suggested (as you say, we won't really know until we try it out ourselves, though a real review would help).

[ShunCheung]

Richard, so far the only DSLR that uses the Multi-CAM 1000 is the D200, and that is not yet available. So naturally I cannot answer any question about the D200 nor the 1000 as I have absolutely no experience with them.

[Richard Williams]

FWIW, I've just dug around and found a few positive comments on the D200 AF from people who've tried it:

 

http://www.nikonians.org/dcforum/DCForumID202/15054.html#9

http://www.infodigitalcamera.com/blog/78/nikon-d200-autofocus-sensor-module-cam-1000/

http://www.nikonians.org/cgi-bin/dcforum/dcboard.cgi?az=read_count&om=140&forum=DCForumID202#13

 

Not conclusive yet, but promising. Perhaps we have a 'digital F100' after all...

[charlie_johnson1]

Trevor,

 

The D1X was still listed in the Nikon Full Line Product Guide (dated 2004), Volume 11, at the same time as the D2X and D2H as well as the D100 and D70. It has only been removed from the lineup on the Nikon USA website over the last few weeks. I know, I have checked.

 

The D1, the granddaddy of all Nikon DSLR's was the FIRST Digital F100. It was built on the F100 frame. Look at the controls and layout; the F100 and D1 is the same creature, even if the D1 does look like the F5 because of the battery location. The D100 was built on the N80 frame.

 

Sure, the D1x design traces its origin back to 1999, when the first D1 hit the marketplace. It is the 3rd rendition of the Nikon DSLR frame coming out in 2001. The D1X boasted 5.4 MP as opposed to the 2.74 MP in the D1 and D1H. The D1X is a tad slow at 3 FPS compared to the D1 at 4.5 FPS and the D1H at 5 FPS. The D1H and D1X did have better power management, 900+ frames on a single charge. The D1 had the bad power management, 300 frames on a single charge, if you are lucky. The D1H and D1X did have a better memory buffer than the D1 as well.

 

Now I can understand trepidation over the price. Earlier this year, in May 2005, a brand new inbox D1X, in Lubbock, TX, still priced at $1,999.00 US. This was after the D2X had been out for a few months and was selling around $4,999.00 US. Prices on Ebay of late have been $250.00 to $450.00 for a D1, $500.00 to 850.00 for a D1H and still well over $1,000.00 for a D1X. This is for basic body kits alone; body, battery, charger, and software, the basic items that come in the body kit. If lenses were involved, the price went for more. For an old design, the D1X is still commanding respect.

 

The D1 family is a tried and tested design. Sure it has flaws, all cameras do, especially during the first run of a new frame and design. The D200 is just now starting to hit the market and there are few if any out in enough hands at this point to say just how good of a unit it is going to be. The D2H and D2X have been out for a while now and we are still hearing about bugs and other assorted issues with them while people are still learning how to use them. Same with the D70, D50, D70s and even the D100, which had been out since, what, 2002. What editions are the books on now for these newer bodies?

 

I have a copy of "D1 Generation" by B. Moose Peterson, in its 1st Edition dated October 2001. There may be a newer edition, I have not checked, but I understand it may be on CD and not in print. I also have the 3rd edition of Thom Hogan's "Complete Guide to the Nikon D1, D1H and D1X" dated 2003 version 3.0.4 on CD. This one may have newer updates available. We know the flaws of the D1 System and how to work with them. Can't say that about the newer DSLR?s in the loop now. Just look at all the post on Photo.net about the newer bodies and all the problems.

 

Sure, it would be nice to own the latest and greatest toys that Nikon turns out every year. I'm not Donald Trump or Bill Gates and don't have the pocket change they do to throw around for the latest gadgets. It seems very silly to me that so many go nuts over the new stuff coming out and immediately sell their old tried and true gear to buy the next new thing. Sometimes, it?s a trade up because the newer gear may work faster or focus sharper than the old or do things that the old stuff didn't. Sometimes, it?s the dumbest thing done because the new replacement gear is of poorer design or construction quality than its predecessors and the older gear is superior or doesn't do as much as the old stuff did. Lenses, bodies, flashes, it doesn't matter.

 

Trevor, if your dealer friend has a New Inbox D1X, it?s probably from the end of the model run and is still a very new and viable camera. I don't think it would have been just sitting around forgotten for years. You may try and talk the dealer down in price some more and be able to save a few more pounds. The D200 is still some time away and we don't know the flaws or idiosyncrasies of it yet. With the D1x, we already know what the limitations are and we already know of ways to work around them. Get the D1X and use the D70 for backup or trade it in for some 2.8 Film Body Grade (Full Frame) glass.

[charlie_johnson1]

Dave,

 

Where are you getting your information? Do you have first hand experience using any of the D1 Family? I have it in two published books saying what the battery life is for the D1H and D1X. "The D1H and D1X did have better power management, 900+ frames on a single charge." I don't have first hand knowledge; I don't own either of those bodies. I have to trust what the pros have written in their books. Are Thom Hogan and B. Moose Peterson wrong in their own experiences? Are they the spreaders of false battery life statements?

 

Now as to the D1 Batteries: "The D1 had the bad power management, 300 frames on a single charge, if you are lucky." I know this for a fact. I have gotten 300 frames on a single charge and could take no more. I have 3 batteries with my D1 really have never needed more than two for a weekend of shooting. I always make sure my batteries are hot when I go out and swap accordingly. I also recharge the discharged batteries overnight before going out the next day. I follow the recommended battery guidelines in the Nikon user guide combined with what I have read from Thom Hogan and B. Moose Peterson. I know how to manage my battery power. I am used to using cordless power tools with NiCd batteries, older cell phones using NiCd or NiMH batteries, and ham radio gear using NiCd and NiMH batteries. The only power problem I ever had with my camera; dead lithiums in the flash. Lucky me, I had spare alkalines in my bag. Lessons learned from shooting with my old N4004s and SB-22.

 

Dave, Trevor asked for advice and all that have answered gave their reasons for getting the D1X or waiting for the D200 and explained why. However, Dave, your statement is just that, a statement. Please explain why all D1 users need 5 batteries. If you can't explain, Dave, then your advice wasn't needed.

[tgersten]

I would wait until the D200 becomes available, and then decide after handling both, probably leaning towards the D200 unless you need the D1X's heft for self-defense ;-)

 

Regarding the D1X's battery life, I rarely get more than 350 shots per charge (new batteries, handled as recommended and everything, using AF and displaying about every fourth frame) which can be a major hassle depending on your shooting style.

[Karim Ghantous]

Trevor, the D1X has poor long exposure performance. The D70 and D50 are far superior. As are the D2H, D2X and no doubt the D200.