Setting up a darkroom in a tropical climate

[dan_mccormack2]

Hey, guys. At first I posted this as a reply to a different, <a

href="http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=001SYK">5-year-old

thread</a> that I found via search, but then I realized the other

thread is in a forum simply called "photo.net" which doesn't seem to

be active anymore, so, since my question is specifically about black

and white developing, it seemed more appropriate to post it here. I

guess this is technically a crosspost but I hope you'll forgive it.<br

/><br />

 

I'm setting up a darkroom in my bathroom here in Puerto Rico, where

the ambient temperature remains around 85 degrees F, and I'm concerned

about temperature control.<br /><br />

 

There's many good responses in the other thread, but most seem to

concentrate around air conditioning the room. I've done some shopping

around and I see there are several portable air conditioning units on

the market (such as the <a

href="http://www.sylvane.com/sunpentown-wa7500.html">Sunpentown

WA-7500M</a>), but aside from the $400 price, they all seem to involve

an exhaust hose which presumably has to be piped out of the room, and

my bathroom doesn't have any windows or vents (aside from the shower

drain...). So air conditioning doesn't seem to be an option for me.<br

/><br />

 

I know, ventilation is important for other reasons, but I'm not

planning on making prints, so as I understand it, I shouldn't need to

keep the door closed for too long.<br /><br />

 

Anyway, assuming air conditioning isn't an option, how feasible is it

to develop film in a tropical climate? Will I have problems keeping

the chemicals at 68 F with just a water bath? I don't suppose it would

work to just use room-temperature chemicals (with equivalently reduced

development times)? Thanks.

[grinder]

Dan, I have some friends in the PR and my best friend at works partents are from there.

 

Here is a good cheap way I live in the southern U.S. we have about the same heat and humidity. If AC is not an option simply put your developing tank in a water bath I have to do it even with A.C. in the summer or my dev times are so short I have no control over the process. Stainless Steel is better for this but I use both just get a bowl or plastic container add chilled water until the temp is around 60-65 a let your developer and fix set in the bath untill it is slightly below 68 check the temp before you pour it in. It is easier than you would think. I dont bother when developng prints just film.

 

Good luck.

 

,Grinder

[conrad_hoffman]

There is also no rule that says you have to process at 68F. Adjust your times and work at 75F or so- it will be easier to maintain and all reports are that quality is the same. Be sure to use a hardening fixer and/or films that are known to be resistant to high temperatures. There are posts about films from smaller companies having problems with high temperature processing.

[raczoliver]

It is totally possible to develop film almost anywhere. I live in Beijing, which is not exactly tropical, but can get quite hot in the summer. I fill the tap with cold water and keep the tank in that, except for agitation. Of course, you have to monitor the temperature of the water the tap is filled with. I normally do it at either 20 or 24 degrees centigrade. 24 degree water should come from the tap and is still a suitable temperature for film development. For making prints I don't bother that much about temperature. As long as it is not too cold, I'm fine.

[dan_mccormack2]

Thanks for all the responses. It's good to know it's not as critical as I thought. I'm much less worried about the prospect now.<br /><br />

 

<i>"There is also no rule that says you have to process at 68F. Adjust your times and work at 75F or so- it will be easier to maintain and all reports are that quality is the same."</i><br /><br />

 

How about warmer than that? I haven't measured the temperature of water out of my tap, but I know that my aquarium sits right at 85 F. I'm sure it wouldn't be hard to bring it down to 75F with some ice, but I'm not sure that it will stay at that temperature throughout the development process. I'm very new to development, but I understand temperature consistency is quite important, right? If I could develop around room temperature, I wouldn't have to worry about temperature variation over time.<br /><br />

 

I suppose for now it's not as big a deal because I'll be developing roll film in a daylight tank, so I can always just watch the thermometer and add more ice as needed. In a few months, though, I plan to buy a 4x5 view camera and start shooting sheet film, at which point I will have to do the whole development in the dark, so I won't have that option anymore.<br /><br />

 

Am I being overly paranoid? Perhaps it won't really warm up very much at 75F or even 68F.

[grinder]

Dan ilford has a time/temp conversion chart on there website that is most helpfull. The big problem above 75 F is the times get so short that 5-15 seconds can make or break the negative where a 10 min development time 5-15 seconds is nothing at 2 1/2 to 3 min it is critical.

 

,Grinder

[grinder]

BTW in the summer my tap water is 79 to 82 F. You are correct that consistency is more important than anything else if not you are always chasing your tail when something goes wrong.

[robert_grasing]

Dan,

 

You can process B/W film at 80 to 85 degrees, or even higher. I do it every summer here in Tokyo.

 

Use Microdol-X or Perceptol at 1+3 dilution. These developers have very long times at 68 degrees (15-20 minutes), but at 80 degrees, they're down to a very convenient 6-8 minutes. Both use only metol as the developing agent, a good thing: MQ (eg, D76) or PQ (eg, Microphen) formulas become quite unbalanced at high temperatures. Either Microdol-X or Perceptol, again at 1+3, should give you full film speed, fine grain and very high sharpness. I use 100ml of stock developer (ie, total developer volume is 400ml) for each roll of 120 or 36 exposure 35mm.

 

In general, modern films don't seem to have any problems with the higher temperatures, at least in my experience with Ilford, Kodak, Fuji and Agfa films, both traditional or T-grain. However, films from other companies (eg, Elke, Foma, etc) might. I don't know, I've never used them.

[lex_jenkins]

Dig around for some info on tropical film developers. These were intended to be suitable for use in higher temperature climates.

 

http://www.farahmahbub.com/VirtualMatter/formulasGalore.htm

 

http://www.digitaltruth.com/techdata/gevaert_g222a.php

 

http://www.michaelandpaula.com/mp/PDFs/Developers_An_Intro.PDF

 

I've used Diafine several times when I couldn't get the temperature in my darkroom below 85F. Diafine works about the same way regardless of variations in time and temperature.

[paulh]

The water bath, using ice if necessary, is a common way to a maintain consistent temperature during processing. Consistency is the most important point, rather than a specific temperature, but as temperature goes up, developing time comes down. Also note that it is only the development part of the process that is really temperature critical.

 

The other option you have is to use one of the few (film) developers that are not so temperature critical - Diafine being one of the best known. There are downsides (nothing is perfect!), but it may be an option.

[rdkirk]

As others have said, the temperature can be adjusted for with the proper developing times and developer dilutions.

 

However, you do have to beware of maintaining some consistency between solutions and during washing. Modern films resist reticulation from warm (over 75F) solutions better than older emulsions, but sudden changes of solution temperature can still cause problems. You would not want to pull film out of a 70F developer and dunk it directly into an 85F stop bath. Nor would you want wash water varying wildly (which is more likely in colder climates).

 

In your case, experiment closely with maintaining all temperatures on the high side (as high as 80F), although as one person has mentioned, the emulsions from some of the newer manufacturers may not yet be up to the high-temperature toughness standards of Kodak, Ilford, and Fuji.

 

Also, plastic water bath containers hold temperature better than stainless steel--you would want stainless steel for the film tank, so that it readily transfers the heat of the water bath.

 

For me, paradise was Honolulu, where my aquifer-fresh tapwater ran at a dead-constant 70F and my thermometers gathered dust.

[ZuikoD]

Hi Dan. I got alerted to your query by a friend of mine.

 

I live in PR and worked for a pro photographer that had his own lab.

For simple roll developing in a daykight tank you just chill the chemicals in a bath with ice

water. You will need a container that can hold in a little water and ice and your chemical

container. I mean the small container that you use to pour the chemical into the daylight

canister. Think of it as a wine or campagne chiller. You will also need the thermometer. It

is as simple as stiring the ice when it gets a bit warm or taking out the chemical container

when it gets too cold.

 

For a more sophisitcated setting you will need a line water chiller. It works with the same

principle of a water cooler. They are not cheap.

 

What you will definetly need is a water purifier!

 

Hope it helps

 

peace

[dan_mccormack2]

Thanks very much for all the responses. I feel so much better educated about the matter now.<br /><br />

 

Diafine sounds very interesting. One of my film cameras is a Holga, and I've read (at <a href="http://www.photoslave.com/misc/diafine.html">this site</a> and others) that the Diafine is a good match for the Holga's lack of precise exposure. I ordered a 1 gallon pack of it from Adorama to play with. Incidentally, I first tried to order from Calumet, but they seem to <a href="http://binrock.net/permanent/2006/0123_developer/expensive_shipping.png">overestimate the difficulty of shipping here</a>. I'm used to having people assume that Puerto Rico is a foreign country, but Calumet seems to think we orbit the Sun beyond Pluto or something... :)<br /><br />

 

Diafine definitely seems a bit less worthwhile though — while it's more straightforward and less troublesome to work with, you lose the ability to control contrast through changes in development time, which is one of the main reasons I'm interested in taking over my own film development. It just seems like developing with Diafine is more of a drudgework-type of task, with little opportunity for creative input. If I'm not going to have any control over the process, why not just let the photo lab do it? Aside from saving myself the $8, the trip downtown, and the three or four day wait, I guess.<br /><br />

 

I think Diafine will work great for the Holga, but once I get a view camera, I'll definitely want to have more precise control over my development, so I think I'll just have to get comfortable with using a water bath to control a more conventional developer. The local photo lab sold me D76, so I'll try that to start out, and see how it goes.<br /><br />

 

Thanks again for all the input, especially from locals and people who have actually worked in this type of environment. It's encouraging to hear that it's not going to be as difficult as I was imagining :)

[lex_jenkins]

Dan, your observations about Diafine are correct, but only part of the picture.

 

While it's true that Diafine pretty much eliminates film development as a creative step, don't overlook the benefits. For one thing, it will deliver consistent negatives which makes printing easier. I dislike film development. To me all the magic happens during printing. While I don't consider contrast adjustments during printing to be an entirely satisfactory substitute for ensuring good contrast through film exposure and development, some pretty interesting things can be done through selective use of filtration combined with dodging and burning during printing on variable contrast paper.

 

Also, Diafine produces a unique look that I often want for certain types of photography. It delivers results with Tri-X that I can't get with any other developer. In some projects I want a sort of detachment between the viewer and the photograph. Because Diafine and Tri-X produce a tonality that is not entirely realistic it heightens this particular sensibility. It's not perfect for every situation but there's nothing better for a particular, peculiar aesthetic, if that happens to appeal to you.

[ronald_moravec1]

PMK works better up to 80 deg.

 

I would use my regular D76 with ice water bath at 75. Soak the film tank with film in it in the water bath so the film comes to 75 before adding any liquids.

 

Have the wash water prepared ahead.

 

Now you need a clean place without airborn dust to dry the film.

[al_kaplan1]

Here in South Florida the tap water on occasion gets as hot as 84f in the summer. With present day films I have no problem just water bathing my chemicals in running tap water and processing at ambient temperature. I mostly use D-76 1:1 and I've been doing this for close to 40 years now, so a lot of older versions of film seemed OK this way also.

[dan_mccormack2]

Well, I developed my first roll today, and, although it didn't go flawlessly, I did get recognizable negatives, so I can't have screwed up <em>too</em> bad :)<br /><br />

 

I tried to use a <a href="http://binrock.net/photos/?pid=10179">water bath</a> to control the temperature of the chemicals and the developing tank, but I had a hard time maintaining a consistent temperature. I diluted my D-76 1+3, and I planned to develop at 74°F, the warmest temperature in Ilford's temperature/development time chart. That would give me a development time of 14:15. But when I was ready to develop, I found that the water bath was actually right around 68°F, so I reset the timer for the appropriate time (22:00) and started development. However, over the next few minutes I saw the thermometer continue to fall, eventually reaching 55°F. I removed the ice from the water, and then, when the temperature didn't come back up fast enough, I pulled the tank out of the water bath and left it sitting on the counter. As a result, I'm pretty sure the temperature fluctuated wildly over the course of development.<br /><br />

 

Several people have said they develop just fine at room temperature, so I'm going to try that next time. I don't know how anyone manages to maintain precise temperatures with ice and water alone. Temperature control is for the birds :) It sure would be nice to have one of those thermal-controlled faucets.

[robert_grasing]

Dan, regarding D76 at higher temperatures: this developer uses metol and hydroquinone as the developing agents, and it should only be used between 68 and 75 degrees. (At least, that's what I've read, I'm certainly no photochemistry expert; apparently, the hydroquinone becomes too active over 75 degrees). But developers using only metol can be used at higher temperatures without problems, hence my suggestion of Microdol-X or Perceptol at 1+3. I can tell you that I've used these developers for many years during the hot Tokyo summer and they work very well at high temperatures. Naturally, the stop bath, fixer and wash should be the same temperature as the developer.

 

 

 

By the way: at 80 degrees or above, metol-only developers usually show a small speed gain, about 1/3 to 1/2 stop. The catch is slightly more noticeable grain.

[scott_walton2]

Dan, As Lex stated and yourself were on the right road as far as Diafine and control is concerned... the benefits truely out weight the downfalls! I have used Diafine since the late 70's and other than my not liking the results I got with the t-grained films, the only real time you will run into "the caveat" is shooting on a very dense cloudy day. Otherwise, your negatives will have stunning gradations, fine and very sharp grain (high acutance), your gallon kit will last you over a year with putting LARGE amounts of film through and... isn't temperature effected! I have used it from 62 degrees to 80 degrees with no discernable density or contrast changes... at all! I shoot alot of 4x5 and with doing so, I have found that shooting TXP, HP5+, Agfapan APX 400, PXP, Ektapan, FP4+, APX 100 in 4x5 format I shoot at speed... 400asa film shot @ 400 ect. Medium format my speed gain is around 1/2 of a stop and with 35mm the speed increase (for my system) is 3/4 to a stop. No need for alot of guess work but your highlights are developed to perfection with shadow detail and mid tones that sing! Side by side judgement on your part, you might very well be shocked at the sharpness with Diafine being much sharper than what you thought was sharp in the past!

[dan_mccormack2]

<i>"But developers using only metol can be used at higher temperatures without problems, hence my suggestion of Microdol-X or Perceptol at 1+3."</i><br /><br />

 

Ah, I wasn't aware of that limitation. It sounds like those developers could be a good compromise, working at room temperature while still functioning as a more traditional developer. On your suggestion, I picked up a pouch of Microdol-X at the photo lab today. I'll give this one a shot at room temperature and see how it turns out.<br /><br />

 

<i>"Dan, As Lex stated and yourself were on the right road as far as Diafine and control is concerned... the benefits truely out weight the downfalls!"</i><br /><br />

 

Wow, quite a ringing endorsement :) I'm definitely still intrigued by Diafine as well, and am looking forward to its arrival in the mail. It's sounding like both Microdol-X and Diafine will meet my needs for different situations, so I'll likely end up using both of them as the situation demands.

[lex_jenkins]

Dan, you might also try evaporative cooling. It's a trick used by old "swamp cooler" air conditioners - I'll bet there are still some of these in Puerto Rico. It's also used by campers to keep drinking water reasonably cool. They use semi-permeable cloth bags to store water. Air blowing across the damp exterior cools the bag.

 

Use a broad open tray and place a fan nearby to blow across the surface. It should lower the temperature a few degrees and unlike ice it will be a consistent temperature change.

[dan_mccormack2]

Robert, do you happen to shoot HP5+ at all? I've determined that room-temperature water in my darkroom is exactly 80°F, so I'm trying to establish a baseline development time for HP5+ in Microdol-X diluted 1+3 at 80°F, but Microdol-X isn't listed in Ilford's datasheet for HP5+. A Google search reveals <a href="http://web.tiscali.it/visualphoto/films/ilford-hp5_400.html">some mentions</a> of 25 min at 68°F, which would mean 13:15 at 80°F, but since you have direct experience developing with Microdol-X at such temperatures, I figured I'd check and see if you've arrived at a more specific value through experience. Input is welcomed from anyone else as well, of course. Thanks.

[robert_grasing]

Dan,

 

I use HP5+, but I've been using it with Ilford Perceptol 1+3, not Microdol-X. Both use similar formulas, and give virtually identical results. Microdol-X generally has slightly shorter times than Perceptol (about 5% shorter), but that's not a problem.

 

The problem is my developing times and Ilford's are very different. I process HP5+ in Perceptol 1+3 at 68 degrees for just 13 minutes, not Ilford's suggested 25. This gives me a negative that prints well on a grade 3 to 3.5 paper, using a condenser enlarger. My EI is 200. At 27 degrees C (slightly higher than 80F), I develop for 7 minutes.

 

 

If you are using an enlarger with a diffused light source, I would increase my times about 10%. If you want to print on grade 2 to 2.5 (rather than grade 3 as I do), add another 10% to the developing time. But these are only starting points, I don't know how well they will work for you. There are too many variables: differences in our thermometers, agitation technique, how much contrast you want in the negative, etc. I also pre-soak HP5+ for several minutes before developing it. If you don't pre-soak, the times should be a little shorter.

 

 

You'll have to do a test roll (or rolls) to get the correct time. But I can tell you that HP5+ in Microdol-X, 1+3, at 80 F will give you excellent negatives.

 

Again, what I said about metol formulas, such as Microdol-X or Perceptol, being preferred for high temperature processing is what I have read. Ditto, not using a MQ or PQ developer over 75 F. I'm not an expert on photochemistry. This would be an excellent point for someone who is to jump in and comment.

[wayne_parish]

Dan,

I live in the Philippines and this past year I started the expensive task of shipping heavy darkroom equipment down here (Omega/Ilford D5, Besseler, Seal 16x20 press, tons!) As it is very tropical here with the humiday high to rediculous year around I have to contend with humidity more so than temperature. Though my tap water is a constant 85f which leaves little room in my fridge for anything but water being prepped for darkroom use. I'd consider buying a de-humidifier atleast, I have found that when I didnt run the a/c in the darkroom humidity attacks everything in there. Paper curls, mounting boards buckle and little screws and exposed metal on all my equipment starts to show signs of rust quickly. During summer months when it gets misreable (mar-june) I keep the a/c on low 24/7. When I lived in Tulsa Ok my basement temperature at the tap was 68f year around..I kid you not, I miss it terribly.

[dan_mccormack2]

Just an update: the first roll I developed, in D-76 at wildly fluctuating temperatures, turned out printable but thin. Well, I should say, the lab was able to make decent prints from it, and when I scanned the negatives I also obtaines reasonable results after some Photoshop levels and curves. If anyone's interested in seeing the results, they're available in my photo gallery <a href="http://binrock.net/photos/?rid=648">here</a>.<br /><br />

 

I just stepped out of the darkroom after developing my second roll. Based on suggestions made here, I developed this one (also HP5+) in Microdol-X (stock) for 6 minutes at 80°F, and it was much more pleasant than my first attempt. The film is still drying, but it looks like it's an improvement over the first roll. We'll see when I scan it.<br /><br />

 

Some other day I'll try another one in Microdol-X 1+3, but I couldn't figure out a good development time to use for that dilution and temperature, so I avoided it for now. Robert, what difference would I see in a 1+3 dilution over the stock one I used today?<br /><br />

 

My order of Diafine arrived the other day, so next time I have a sunny day, I'll shoot a roll of Tri-X and try developing it in Diafine. I find it intriguing for the visual effect it has, but if this experiment in Microdol-X at room temperature worked, then I'm not quite as scared of developing in a conventional developer anymore, so I won't be resorting to Diafine just because it's less stressful :)<br /><br />

 

I'll post the URL for this new roll once I get it scanned, in case anyone's curious.