Stock solution vs 1:1 dilution

[mr._smith]

Any advantages of using let's say ID11 or D76 at stock solution over

1:1 dilution for Ilford FP4+.

[randall ellis]

For a very detailed explaination, I suggest that you read "The Darkroom Cookbook". It explains how the various types of developers work and why in great detail while still being easy to understand. Dillution of a solvent developer (like D-76/ID-11) enhances edge effects while still offering 'smaller' grain than an acutance developer. Different dillutions offer different results, so depending on what you wanted to get out of the negative, you would either use straight developer or a dilution.

 

Another advantage of dilution is that results are typicaly more predictable from "one-shot" use than from reused straight developer.

 

- Randy

[randall ellis]

For a very detailed explanation, I suggest that you read "The Darkroom Cookbook". It explains how the various types of developers work and why in great detail while still being easy to understand.

 

Dilution of a solvent developer (like D-76/ID-11) enhances edge effects while still offering 'smaller' grain than an acutance developer. Different dilutions offer different results, so depending on what you wanted to get out of the negative, you would either use straight developer or a dilution.

 

Another advantage of dilution is that results are typically more predictable from "one-shot" use than from reused straight developer.

 

- Randy

[dalahorse]

Stock developer will show less apparent grain but with less apparent sharpness with D76 or ID-11. So, if you're going for the no-grain look with a small film, stock may be better than 1+1. Stock developers can typically be reused a few times, too. Of course, your stock developer doesn't have to be diluted all at once. So there is economy either way.

[john_finch]

Can't add much to Randy's excellent answer except that by diluting you also increase development time and compensation. At small dilutions the compensation of the developer is very little but as you dilute more and more it starts to show by controlling the highlights whilst still developing the shadows to completion.

 

The increase in development time can be a plus for many people. It allows a greater margin of error in pouring in and out as well as agitation variation as well as less chance of the dreaded uneven development. So, there are many reasons to dilute developers.

 

BTW, dilution can be any arbitrary amount as long as there is enough developer to fully develop the film. Times can be worked out by tests easily enough so you may find your own dilution preferance that is not documented. Rodinal is perhaps the most played with developer in this league. There are so many dilutions as it can develop film to completion with very little active agent. 1+200 dilution for instance.

 

Anyway, back to spotting. I hope this helped.

 

John

 

www.pictorialplanet.com

[conrad_hoffman]

Just remember that all this talk about sharpness and grain is referring to very subtle and small effects. Most of the properties of the film are built in during manufacture. Though there are differences in developers and dilutions, IMO FP4+ is very robust no matter what you develop it in. ID11/D-76 1:1 is the time honered one-shot developer. It's inexpensive and gives good consistancy. If you want to see more difference, some have suggested ID11/D-76 at a 1:2 or 1:3 dilution. Just make sure you have enough solution volume to do the job. You should work out your own times for your conditions. Going the other way, though I haven't tried it with FP4+, I've gotten very favorable results with Plus-X developed in full strength D-76. It's cheap enough, so I one-shot that as well. Tonal quality was excellent and grain was nearly invisible. Any loss of sharpness was purely theoretical, as the prints were very crisp. Before TFDC few people talked about acutance. Now, everybody wants a high acutance developer. IMO, it's not right for every shot, and there's a place for many developer types and dilutions.

[lex_jenkins]

It's usually a matter of grain and economy of use.

 

Two-part powders that are mixed together to form a stock solution often produce finer grain but sometimes at the cost of sharpness and economy of use.

 

However that perceived increase in "sharpness" may be somewhat illusory, especially when it produces little more than increased grain.

 

Economy of use is sometimes similar when comparing reusing stock solution with one-shot use of 1+1 dilutions. I typically use a liter of Microphen at full strength 10 times, pouring the developer back into the container after each session. At 1+1 dilution, I'd get the same number of development sessions.

 

However dilutions can favor economy when stock solutions are mixed at 1+2, 1+3 or other dilutions for one-shot use, or when used full-strength with the stock solution periodically replenished to maintain full strength.

[dalahorse]

For what it's worth, I'll add that I use Perceptol and Microdol-X undiluted for most of my

FP4+ and PanF+ processing. I typically reuse the developer 6 or 7 times before mixing a

new batch.

 

The losses and gains in sharpness and grain are both minute - often not noticeable.

However, I thought both were worth mentioning because they directly answered the

original question. Looking back on my negatives, I can only really tell the difference

between stock and diluted processing on small (35mm) film enlarged to 8x10" or larger.

[pics]

I think the biggest benefit of diluting your devloper besides higher acutance and apparent sharpness is the compensating effect to be had by many developers when diluted. Stock developer solutions increase contrast and may be fine if you work in controlled lighting situations or extremely flat light but otherwise it can produce a negative that is difficult to deal with at the printing stage. As to the increase in grain, there are many feelings on this and you've seen many of them here in this post but personally I favor higher acutance and sharpness over fine grain unless I am shooting high speed or pushed film. The obsession over producing grain free negatives has its roots fom decades ago when films were inherently grainier than todays offerings and if you wanted an enlargment of any considerable size you had to use ultra fine-grain developers. I would recommend checking out Barry Thornton's "Edge of Darkness" or Anchell and Troop's "Film Developing Cookbook." Both do a good job of explaining why an image with micro-fine grain has an very smooth but also soft and fuzzier look. FP4+ is already very fine grained and I think you would benefit from using higher dilutions of developer but thats just my opinion. When I started to focus of acutance and sharpness instead of fine grain I definitely saw an improvment in the image quality of my prints. Either way do some experimenting and act according to your own tastes. Thats the beauty of this whole thing.

[rich_ullsmith1]

This is making me want to put down the Delta 100 for a while and pick up the

FP4. Excellent stuff.