Tray Processing 4x5 Film Questions

[red_jenny]

I am trying my hand at tray-processing 4x5 sheets. Thus far I have

had ...ahem ... mixed results. But the real question I had was what

do you use to time the development process which doesn't produce a

light of any sort, and yet lets you know how much time has

progressed. It would be nice to know how long is left to go. I have

tried using an electronic wrist watch as a timer, but I worry about

the light escaping from it when I press the light button (even when i

cup my hands over it) If I don't check it, I am constantly worried

that I forgot to press the "start" button!

 

Second question: the time for Ilford 100 in 1:1 D76 is 12 minutes at

68 deg F. My darkroom is quite warm in the summers, and with my heat-

producing fingers in the 800 ml of developer too, I am sure that the

temperature rises quickly. Solutions? Should I cut back the time to

10 minutes?

[colin_graham]

Gralabs are great. Huge luminescent dial timers. Ebay, where else? For the temp question, you could water-jacket with some ice or extrapolate for rising temp. I use a 16x20 tray and float my small 4x5s in it. @_@

[colin_graham]

Er, I should say, float 5x7 trays in the 16x20.

[neil_miller2]

Hi - I use a small battery-powered tape recording machine. It's a bit boring recording the tape and speaking the time every 30 secs as it elapses, but you only have to do it once. count yourself in as well - you need a bit of time to orientate yourself once the lights are out and you switch the tape player on.

 

Lately I have been developing by inspection - I use a dark green Kodak filter on my safelight and have a quick look at the film after three-quarters of what I think the proper dev time should be. This removes a lot of the hassle of keeping temperature absolutely correct and gives a great deal of flexibility. No more underdevelopment, either.

 

Regards,

Neil.

[ronald_moravec1]

My timer is is on an eye level shelf above the sink. The timer sits on a piece of cardboard that serves to make the shelf extrawide at that point. There is no direct path for the light from timer to film.

 

Tha timer is an electronic Gra-lab with footswitch. In addition to the visual display, there is an audable one. There is a piece of fogged film in front of the visual numbers set to dim such that you have to look pretty hard to read them.

 

Between the fogged film and the extra wide light baffle, no light gets to the bench top.

 

People have been known to use a tape recorder with developing time countdown recorded.

 

Process at room temp with comensurate shorter time up to 75 deg. Above that, you will need some temp control.

 

There are times for different temps on Ilford`s site, and a graph showing times for different temps. The graph is small so just click on the + sign at the top of the page, reposition the cursor and enlarge the page of the Acrobat reader by left clicking as much as necessary.

 

Personally I would use a better method of processing such as tanks with a hanger rack and film hangers, Nikor tank for 4x5, Jobo 2500 tank with the six sheet 4x5 reel used as a hand tank, or a jobo expert drum.

 

I have used all the above and can get purfect negs with all of them.

Color 4x5 negs go in the Jobo Expert drum always. Black and white goes in the Nikor 4x5 tank which is like an overgrown 35mm tank. It holds 12 sheets in a special reel and uses only 36 oz of solution. This makes it as simple as roll film. I used to do single sheets in a tray, but shuffling thru a film stack never worked for me. I was successful with single sheets of 4x5 in an 8x10 tray, no smaller. Proper agitation will get purfect negs, but the method is very tedious. Production can be boosted if you have up to 4 developing trays going at once. Start each tray 30 sec apart and the first will finish 2 min before the last of four sheets.

[neal_wydra1]

Dear Red,

 

I set my watch to beep more often than just at the very end of the cycles. (Timex Ironman 100Lap). The timer can be programmed all sorts of ways.

[ken_schroeder]

I have a Gralab analog timer mounted on the wall where I can reach it with my left hand when the sheets of film are in the presoak tray. I use Paterson 8x10 trays. The grooves on the bottom work very well. The 8x10 size is fine, but 11x14 actually works a little better. A long stick 3x4" x 3/4" to prop the trays toward you helps keep the negatives in place. Use plenty of solution, at least a quart. The secret to success is in the presoak operation. Place the negatives one at a time in a very relaxed, leisurely fashion. Work slowly and do not move them into the developer until the pile shuffles very smoothly. You might try adding more water to the developer (making it more dilute) to compensate for the temperature rise. With this method twelve sheets are easily developed at a time. I have done as many as eighteen at once, but that is really pushing things.

 

Fred Picker's excellent book, the Zone VI Workshop describes this very well. The book is readily available used at a very reasonable price.

[jay_de_fehr]

Red,

 

the only time I process sheetfilm in trays is when I want to develop by inspection, and then I develop one sheet at a time, with brush agitation to ensure even, defect-free negatives. I use two cheap, electronic timers; one that counts down, set for 2/3 the estimated development time, and another that counts up, like a stopwatch. When the countdown timer sounds, I check the progress of development with a dim green inspection light, and inspect at intervals until development is deemed optimum, at which time I stop the countdown timer, and transfer the neg to the stop bath.

 

second reply: Development by inspection sidesteps the issue of temp control, and single sheet brush agitation eliminates the need to handle the film during development.

 

I've experimented with all kinds of unorthadox methods of developing sheetfilm, and for me, shuffling sheets in a tray is the least reliable, and most prone to defects. Tubes, drums, Patterson tanks, deep tanks with hangers, and even ziploc baggies have all proven more reliable for me than shuffling in a tray. Good luck.

 

Jay

[conrad_hoffman]

FWIW, I rarely shoot much 4x5 at one time. When I shoot 4x5, I care about every shot, and if I tray process, I do 'em one at a time. That way I can correct the times a bit if necessary. In the rare event I do shoot more than a few, hangers are the way to go. Fingers are only in the solution to go from tray to tray and get rinsed immediately.

[red_jenny]

Saying that you do one at a time, do you mean that you change the developer or do you do the next sheet in the same developer as the last sheet?

[red_jenny]

Ziplock baggies! Wow I should try that one. I just did a sheet and managed to scratch it. I am trying to develop using the smallest and least bulky method possible, since I plan on taking my Super Speed Graphic on the road for an EXTENDED travel session -- far far far away.

[conrad_hoffman]

I use the same developer, and enough of it that development times don't change much. If you ever want to try stand developing (long times with minimal or no agitation), it really works best when the film is perfectly horizontal, i.e., tray development, to avoid streaking.

[lex_jenkins]

I don't tray develop film since I don't shoot large format any more. But I have on occasion needed accurate timing in the dark. I just cover my Gralab digital timer (red LEDs) with a sheet of opaque black plastic from a box of printing paper.

 

My Gralab digital timer can be configured a few different ways to help me keep track of how much time has passed, and has a final countdown warning.

 

So, as others have said, there are several ways to handle this problem.

[paul_hoyt]

Panchromatic film is not light sensitive to flourescent photographic timers such as the GraLab timer mentioned above. It is your best bet for darkroom processing of films and paper. For tray processing use trays one size larger than your neagtives. Also use trays that have indentations that will permit your fingers to get under the negatives, such as Paterson trays. I use a 2 tray method where each neagative is moved every 30 seconds from one tray to the other until development is completed. If I am developing 1 negative, it is moved every 30 seconds. If I am developing 6 negatives, I move a negative every 5 seconds from one tray to the other tray. I do this by sliding the bottom negative out of one tray and placing it on the surface of the second tray and gently pressing it under the solution. I pre-soak my negatives in a plain water bath and set my timer for an extra 20 seconds. When I move the negatives from the water bath to the developing tray, I start my timer and carefully shuffle the negatives for 20 seconds by removing the bottom negative to the top of the stack using the technique described above. A set of 6 negatives can be shuffled once in 20 seconds, then I start moving negatives to the second tray at the interval that is required to move each neagative once every 30 seconds until developing is complete.

 

Water bath for temperature control. I have wire cooking racks that fit into large trays. My developing trays sit on the wire racks and are surrounded by water at 68 degrees. Ice in baggies will cool the bath water to 68 degrees and it should hold the developing temperature for the duration of development. The larger the volume of the water bath the longer it will hold at 68 degrees. Ice baggies can be made up for all your solutions to get them to 68 degrees in the summer and the water bath will help keep the temperature constant. Heat producing fingers can be cooled in a tray of cold water, but I have not had any problems with overdevelopment of negatives due to "hot hands". Exposure effects negative densities greater than slight increases of developing temperature.

 

Paul

[richard_ilomaki]

Timing

 

I got a Radio Shack talking timer, that has a countdown function. It "talks" every minute and every ten seconds in the last minute. The auction site had 2 last week for less than $10. I'm not sure Radio Shack( or The Source in Canada now) still has them, but they are excellent. easy to learn how to use in total darkness as well.

 

cheers

[nate_ross]

Call me new-fangled, but I find the best way to pass the time is to make a playlist on my mp3 player (though a tape or cd-r would work as well) where the songs are timed out to be the right amount of time for development. Pick a three minute song and a three and a half minute song, and you have hp5+ in ilfotec hc at normal development. :) Audio doesn't fog film, no matter how loud!