Pushed film being X-Rayed??

[zane_yau]

Hi people

 

I will be traveling to Spain later this year and I plan to take some

fast film with me. Concern is of course the security checks in the

airports. I want to take with me Tri-Xs, T Max 400s

 

I know that X Ray is more sensitive to fast films with speed like

1600 and 3200.

 

I am just not sure if I push my Tmax 400 to 1600, will it be as

sensitive to X Ray as other 1600 film? Sorry for the stupid question.

 

Thanks

Zane

[g._armour_van_horn]

Basically, yes. Radiation triggers a change in the silver halide crystals which is converted to an image in the darkroom. The basic process is unaffected by whether the radiation is light intentionally let in through the lens, X-Rays, or light leaks. It makes no difference if the sensitivity of the film is increased by changes in the film or changes in development.

 

You probably should investigate getting the film processed before you leave Spain or try to find out if you can arrange for hand inspection of your film (both unexposed and exposed) at the airports you will be going through.

 

Van

[larrydressler]

You will get more fog on exrayed pushed film believe. And with fast color/colour positive film it is even worse. at least you may be able to remove some of the fog with B&W in the printing stage.

[joe_manthey1]

Radiation causes a granularity increase in the underexposure region (for negs). Fog increase is of less importance and is a smaller effect. My guess is that a pushed film will behave like any other film at that ISO. You will not have any problem with non-pushed film going through carry-on inspection.

 

I attempted to get a hand inspection in Copenhagen but was refused. Their security people showed me a letter from a Kodak representative which said Kodak tested Tmax 3200 through the Copenhagen system a few times without apparent effect.

[athinkle]

I believe that they are legally required to perform a hand-inspection if one is requested. Whether or not an individual security guard will comply, however, is less certain. I'm sure that if you yell long enough and hard enough that they will do it. However, you'll probably get "hand inspected" as well...

[phule]

<< I believe that they are legally required to perform a hand-inspection if one is requested. >>

 

TSA rules don't apply to airports in Spain.

[Spearhead]

<i>TSA rules don't apply to airports in Spain.</i><p>

 

Or anywhere outside the US. In most countries, treatment is inconsistent. I've had numerous experiences of being forced to put it through the x-ray in some airports and not in others in the same country. I was in Spain last year, went through x-ray six times, and was required once to put it through, in Sevilla.

[gary_meader]

No. The idea that you're going to be 'pushing' your film only means that you'll

underexpose it and 'push' it in processing. By deciding to 'push', you don't make the film

more sensitive. Although, to be sure, try to get the film processed before you come home,

as already mentioned.

[craig_shearman1]

Keep in mind that x-ray exposure is cumulative and every time you double the number of passes through a x-ray machine it's like doubling the ISO. So Tri-X pushed to 1600 that goes through two x-ray passes is like a roll of 3200 going through once. And if you go through four times it's like a roll of 6400. I did a trip to Italy last month and had four passes -- once getting on the plane in the U.S., another during my transfer in Paris, then Milan on the way home and another transfer in Paris. Hand inspection is much harder to get in Europe if not impossible. When I traveled through England even back in 1995 they flat out refused hand inspection no matter what. The best approach today is simply not to travel with film -- either shoot digital or buy and process your film wherever you are. Tri-X and other standard Kodak films are available worldwide, as are Ilford and Fuji. Find out the location professional camera store ahead of time and buy when you get there. The real answer for traveling of course is simply digital. Then the problem doesn't exist.

[john_shriver]

How many people on photo.net have actually reported damage to film from airport hand luggage X-Rays?

 

How many people on photo.net fret over the risk of this?

 

The first number is miniscule. The second is large. Needlessly.

[joe_manthey1]

Agreed. And as I said in yet another thread on the same topic, your film will see more radiation at 35,000 feet on the flight over than it will see in multiple passes through inspection stations.

 

The comment that pushed film isn't "pushed" until processed and consequently won't be more sensitive to radiation isn't true. In underexposing you're putting more of the image in the portion of the characteristic curve (the toe) that is, in fact, the radiation-sensitive portion.

[bill_tuthill]

<I>"More radiation at 35,000' than multiple [X-rays]."</I>

<P>

Is this also true if you fly at night?

(Thanks Joe, what you say about the characteristic curve makes sense.)

[james_wong3]

I had been refused a hand check in Switzerland and China with pushed tri-x, one stop, got x-rayed came home and develped it myself with no ill effects. Last time in China I forgot some film in the CHECKED luggage and again no problems. I guess the machines are better now than they used to be. Same stuff happend to me 15 years ago and the outcome was fogged.

 

But just the same I will still try to hand check and not push my luck...

[bill_tuthill]

To answer my own question, ionizing radiation (in the form of gamma

rays) comes from supernovae and also the sun.

<A HREF="http://www.cami.jccbi.gov/AAM-600/Radiation/trainingquestions.htm">This FAA website</A> implies that solar ionizing radiation is less

at night, except after "a severe solar disturbance". At low latitudes

gamma radiation is reduced due to the earth's magnetic field.

[mattvardy]

Also of concern would be 800 ISO films as well. In Toronto's Pearson International I was advised to have my 800 ISO films hand-checked.

[amy_parker1]

I was in Spain last November (Barcelona) and had problems getting a hand inspection. The airport security refused and called the Guardia Civil over. They offered me the choice of being arrested or having it scanned. I opted for the scan. I was not rude or anything; I speak fluent Spanish and was very polite. We transferred via Amsterdam and once again had to be scanned, twice. I saw no impact on any color Fuji film (NPH) or Ilford HP5 BW 400.

 

Good luck!