New B&W film

[tony_brookes5]

I have read recently that - I think - Kodak are to introduce a B&W film with 30 times the resolution of their current best film. The article went on to say that it foresaw the end of medium format cameras. Unfortunately I was reading someone elses newspaper from the back in a train so couldn't see the heading properly. Does anyone know anything about this ?

[mph]

There are various rumors of high-resolution films; just look at the

other posts to this forum recently. But where will the optics come

from to take advantage of 1000 lp/mm or whatever? Keep in mind that

diffraction is a hard limit. I think that rumors of the death of

larger formats are greatly exaggerated.

[nigel_smith2]

And why wouldn't they produce it in MF sizes too...

[pete_andrews]

Contrary to what you might think from my recent spate of posts about

resolution; I don't really think that resolution has much to do with

image quality at all. Otherwise all soft-focus images would be seen to

be rubbish, which is clearly nonsense.<br>"Tonality" is the key to

quality, and finer grain in films can help with this, but only if that

fineness of grain goes hand-in-hand with reasonable contrast.<br>You

can't see the grain in Lith film, but it doesn't give good quality

images.<br>Some other factors are involved as well. Much of the

quality possible with small formats is lost to common dirt. Dust

specks, or more insidious micro particles or water hardness on the

surface of the negative, together with lack of smoothness in the

surface of the emulsion itself, all degrade the image, no matter how

good the camera equipment is.<br>Now, as I see it, there are two ways

to tackle this.<br>1)You can turn your darkroom into a clean room, and

suit up every time you want to make a print or develop a film. It'll

probably only cost you somewhere in the region of $200US a month for

the necessary water and air filters.<br>Or<br>2)You can use a larger

format.

[john_hicks]

> You can use a larger format.

 

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But that would be doing it the easy way!

 

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I went down the hi-res road a long time ago with H&W film and developer; all I got out of that pursuit was a bunch of very sharp, grainless but otherwise nasty-looking prints and a full appreciation of how incompetent my techique had really been. So it was a learning experience at least.

 

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These days I see the use of highest-RP films in the tiniest cameras as a techno-hobby niche of photography, perhaps valid in its own right, in which content is almost irrelevant as long as it's really sharp.

 

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I'd love to go the other way: Delta 3200 in 8x10. <g>

[josh2]

since you bring it up why dont they make delta 3200 in 4x5 or 8x10?I

usually dont need the speed but it could be useful when photogrph in

a slight wind.Sorry I could not resist.-J

[tony_brookes5]

Thanks for all your answers. Clearly the possibilty of this new film

is creating a stir. I don't know enough about optics to comment on

resolution factors but reading the replies there still seems to be an

acceptance that better sharpness will continue to be obtained from

medium format but more spontaneity from 35mm. - even though 35mm can

be blown up to very large sizes with acceptable sharpness if viewed

from the right distance.

[michael_fraser1]

Kodak to make a hi-res film?? At the risk of sounding snotty, I can

only answer "So what!" Many photographers confuse 'resolution'

(lines/mm) with sharpness. The sharpness of Ilford Delta 100 is

already at the limit of all but the very best optics, ie. Leitz 100

mm APO-Macro-Elmarit set at optimum aperture. (See Photo Technique

International magazine 1/93, p. 54) To achieve maximum sharpness, the

camera must be mounted on a tripod and the shutter speed set high

enough to avoid even minute mirror shake. Now, is this practical?

Hardly. The answer is, if you want higher resolution, MAKE A BIGGER

NEGATIVE. If you want sharpness (call it 'actutance') avoid solvent

(fine grain) developers. Try Delta 100 developed in PMK. This

combination is blazingly sharp and has a beautiful scale as well.

Remember that open sky and out of focus areas reveal grain more

readily than sharply focused areas. Don't forget the quality of the

enlarging lens and the accuracy of the enlarger alignment!

[john_hicks]

> why dont they make delta 3200 in 4x5 or 8x10?

 

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Most likely because our film holders aren't remotely light-tight enough.

[william_cook]

Not sure about the story of Kodak coming out with a high res

film, what I am sure about is a story that got wide professional

play a few months ago regarding Agfa's discovery of how to

make an extremely high quality highly light sensitive B&W film

that could compete with the quality of the slowest films yet be

rated into the the 1000's. Word was that they were trying to figure

out how to make this technology work with color film. I wonder

what ever happened to that. I check the Agfa site now and then

to see any further developments, but I don't see anything.

[MTC Photography]

I think a new high res film will increase the on film sharpness of any lens by

50% to 100%. Current fine grain film such as Agfapan APX 25 resolves only 145 lpmm, that is the limit why 35mm lens hard to get pass 100 lpm on film.

If Kodak can deliver a 1000 lpmm film at 50 ASA, A GOOD 35mm can deliver about 150 to 200 lpmm on film- with the result that good 35mm lens can rival MF.

<P> However, this does not mean the demise of MF. On the contrary, I believe who ever market this film will make 120 format film available, so

MF loaded with this film will rival LF in quality.

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[marty_deveney]

In response to the comment about films that would have normal grain

but very high speed, the emulsions are regular B&W silver technology

emulsions that incorporate formate into the emulsion. Formate films

have been investigated by Kodak also, but proved difficult to

sensitize to (particularly) red wavelengths and are tough to store

effectively.