david_eicher Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 Was wondering if this is OK or not. I took this image of this Political officaldoing a canoe/kayak river race. I was covering the event for a local newspaperand image made front page (small town newspaper). This was probably about 4years ago. Since I do this freelance the images remain my property, not thenewspapers. She is now using this image in one of her Political ads that isrunning in the newspaper. Just wondering if this is legal or if I should haveher pull the image. Image was taken about 4 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellis_vener_photography Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 No it isn't legal and yes you should pursue financial compensation. register your copyright now and send them a bill. better yet have a friend ly lawyer send them a bill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_powell2 Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 Hi Dave, Just a couple quick questions. You mentioned that you did this freelance. Did you and the paper agree to image ownership in writing? And did the paper ever use the words "Work for hire"? I've encountered those words many times in the past (as a "freelance" writer), and at the time, they usually meant "we will own the results." Just wondering...And good luck with this! Sincerely, Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rds801 Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 I do some freelance work for a small paper. Whenever they get requests from someone to purchase a photo that runs in the paper, the paper gives the person my contact info so this way they are dealing with me directly and I charge them my fee. Maybe you can check with the paper and see how they handle requests first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katieontario Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 Hi there! I freelance for a small newspaper too. Our agreement is that any images they use of mine are theirs, as they have paid me for the photo assignment. Whatever. I just take two shots of the exact same thing now so I can use the very similar image for my own portfolio. Good luck! I would consider it an honour, and maybe instead ask them for a print for your portfolio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiva Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 If, as stated a couple of times above, the "official" has rights to use your image then I'd still follow up with a note. I'd congratulate them on using a high Quality image for thier purposes and mention that you are the photographer who captured the image; and, mention that your services are currently available if they wish to capture any images in the future. If you can't get $$$ now then you can surely set the table for Portraits or Event Photography in the near future and you come off looking like the true Professional that you are. Congrats on your image being selected by the Political official: make some future Hay out of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david_eicher Posted August 10, 2006 Author Share Posted August 10, 2006 I retain all of my images from newspaper freelance. Use to be negs, now it is digital. A copy of image (downsized) is emailed to newspaper for their use. I retain the full size image in my archieves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric friedemann Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 David, I would first call the campaign's media director, explain the situation and ask a reasonable price for use of the image. The campaign may very well just send you a check, and you wouldn't be out any money. If the campaign stiffs you, as Ellis suggests, you can take legal steps to enforce your copyright. However, win, lose or draw, you'll likely spend more on attorney fees than you'll recover in a useage fee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graham john miles Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 No such thing as a friendly lawyer and any legal correspondence will cost more than you'll ever hope to get. Send them a nicely worded letter explaining your concerns. No point in attacking with your first communication, they may have genuinely thought they had rights to the image and your clarification will be a wake-up call. They may be only too happy to pay for present and future rights to the image and who knows maybe they'll ask you to do more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_c38 Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 David, I would start by sending them a certified letter that explains you own the copyright to this image. Also include a reasonable bill. Yes you could probably due an unreasonable bill and then have to take it to court, and possibly pay as much in court/lawyer costs, or just do the route above and get paid for it. If they refuse, then talk to a lawyer and charge a very huge fee. This is of course that you are not giving up any rights when selling them to the paper. Do you have a contract with the paper? If so, just double check it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mona_chrome Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 First, did you sign any agreement with them. If you did what does it say about ownership. The words "work for hire" sometimes worded in what seems a harmless clause-"this work will be considered as a work for hire..." Seems reasonable if you don't realize the legal ramifications of those words. In any case, these words mean it belongs to the newspaper. If you only gave one time publishing rights, you own the image and the candidate has no rights in the image or to use it. I have had some things like this happen and I found that a phone call is the way to go. Call them and tell them that it is your photo and that you gave no one the right to authorize its use. Have a number, reasonable for the use, that you want for their using it. Be humble and indicate your understanding of the misunderstanding, but you would like them to pay for the use and your fee is XXXX for this sort of thing. Be a little high at first and be a great guy and come down to where you wanted to be in the first place--don't take a gotcha attitude, they probably are doing this oblivious to the issue, so be nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qtluong Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 <i>I would consider it an honour, and maybe instead ask them for a print for your portfolio</i> <p> Do you mean the more high-profile and well-financed the requestor is, the more likely you would grant them free use of your images ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tholte Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 "I would consider it an honour, and maybe instead ask them for a print for your portfolio." Huhhh? An honor to have your photo used no charge by a politician? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david_eicher Posted August 11, 2006 Author Share Posted August 11, 2006 No images are mine. I am not sure how they even got it. Trying to contact newspaper about it and also campaign media center. Possible she got a copy without my knowledge since this was taken sometime ago. As to her statue and me "trying to get money" from her. Isn't that why we are considered professionals? We get paid??? Besides, this is considered commercial to me. She is selling herself to the public with my image. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david_eicher Posted August 11, 2006 Author Share Posted August 11, 2006 I would consider it an honour, and maybe instead ask them for a print for your portfolio LOL, I have the original image, why would I want one for my portfolio?? Also have the front page of the newspaper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mona_chrome Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 Totally a commercial use, and even if "not" you still have the right to compensation for the photos use. Let's face it, if it is used, it is for some gain by the person using it, even if no "product" is involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig_gillette Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 It still comes down to whether your work for the paper was legally "work for hire" or in some other way you contracted to pass them copyright or usage rights. Once that's figured out, then you can decide how to approach them. It may be that some staffer stiffed the paper, not you, or they got it from the paper as the paper believes they have or actually have the rights to it, etc. It could be that the candidate remembered the use in the paper and suggested it, maybe she had the picture from the paper way back when, etc. It would be nice if all campaigners and all of the members of their staffs were experts in all kinds of relevant law, even just in campaign conduct and finance would be nice, but they aren't necessarily all pros or all experts. I'd think you'd want to be absolutely clear on your legal standing before moving too aggresively on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david_eicher Posted August 12, 2006 Author Share Posted August 12, 2006 OK, Candidate contacted me yesterday. She was unaware of any rammifications of doing this. Also, not so much her fault as to ad layout people at the newspaper itself. All the candidate had was the newspaper image from the publication, this had been laminated. She brought it in because she has a big stand on clean water and water useage. This photo shows her in the final stages of a canoe/kayak race down the Waccasassa River, a pristine body of water in the Big Bend of Florida. Beneath the image is my Credit line, but the person at the paper either did not see it or was unaware that the image was mind. Politician and I have reached an agreement. We have a derilict boat half sumerged on this river and she can offer me some help on how to get it removed. Case closed. Thanks all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tholte Posted August 12, 2006 Share Posted August 12, 2006 A true "Cinderella story" as Bill Murray would say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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