Chinese Tri-X, or, Cheap Film Makes the Grade

[melvin_bramley]

AS,I assume, the major contributors to this website are from the USA; I am amazed at the bottom feeders.These bottom feeders, for whatever product,go to no ends to find the lowest price regargless of "real" cost.Go ahead I say; but don't bitch & cry when your job becomes obsolete.In the meantime I will buy less quality product made in a country with work ethics & standards.

[melvin_bramley]

AS,I assume, the major contributors to this website are from the USA; I am amazed at the bottom feeders.These bottom feeders, for whatever product,go to no ends to find the lowest price regargless of "real" cost.Go ahead I say; but don't bitch & cry when your job becomes obsolete.In the meantime I will buy less quality product made in a country with work ethics & standards.

[edward_zimmermann]

"<cite>But if you have my budget, and the choice is having enough film by buying the absolute cheapest, or running out before you can afford more because you got 1/3 less of the "responsible" brand, which would you choose?</cite>"

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Less film, just as I choose less to frequently purchase items such as clothing, shoes etc. That they are better made and have designs that don't go in or out of fashion let me wear them longer.

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"<cite>If I had the kind of money many amateur photographers seem to have, then I very well might be able to purchase only Kodak, Ilford, and Agfa </cite>"

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Lets back up a bit and we need be clear on on thing: "<strong>Amateur photography has never been in its over 100 year history cheaper than it is today</strong>. The used market on darkroom gear completely collapsed to prices often below the cost to transport the items to the dump. My darkroom pays witness to that trend. Cameras too have gone significantly down (with the exception of some very special collectors items). A MINOX camera, for instance (I know that Donald used to hang out in the MINOX forums) have become truely affordable second cameras. Your 1928 camera was probably very expensive in its day but lets instead look to the late 1950s and into 1960s when photography was long mainstream: In the 1960s a MINOX B would have cost a few month's remuneration of a higher level German civil servant but today can be found (with a little effort) for under $50 USD. 35mm cameras? My Vito-B from the late 1950s was 140 DM then new but I paid 10 DM for it 6 years ago-- so against the trend its pretty much held its value :). I got a Vito-CL (which was even more expensive in the early 1960s) for a whopping 5 EURO from a shop. Its all literally junk today (despite being optically and mechanically great cameras). Medium format? Large format? Used cameras have fallen across the board to price levels that one could never have imagined just a few years ago.

Processing? The drugstores here charge for prints less than slides were a few years ago. 20 years ago in Germany processing and colour printing a roll of 36 exposure film would have cost more than 40 DM (lets call that $20 USD). Today? At the local DM chain (all the Drugstores compete for customers and some are even cheaper) processing is 0.99 and prints are in 9x13cm a whopping 0.04 (all including the 16% VAT and with the option not to take and pay for prints that one does not want). That's not even 2.50 EURO for a 36 roll of film to be processed and printed (it done in the big CeWe lab and printed on good papers such as Fuji Crystal Archive). Minox processing? That's a speciality item but it too is available for as low at 0.20 EURO per print (Formula One, which I think also send their stuff to CeWe). Rollfilm? One can get a 12 exp roll developed and printed 13x13cm for under 3 EURO. Film? DM sells repacked Agfa-Vista for under the 1 EURO/36-exposure mark. Rollfilm? A 5-pack of Fuji Reala 120 is available for as little as 11 EURO plus 16% VAT (13 EURO or less) from some of the "<cite>to the trade</cite>" shops and mailorder. B&W 120 materials such as Agfa APX-100 are also between 2 and 2.50 EURO. Still have need to get film cheaper? Short rolls (motion picture stocks) and overstock from commercial photographers are surely options! Processing chemicals? Competition is still strong on the mini-lab market so items such as fixer (C-41 minilab fixers are well suited to B&W) are very inexpensive (and if you need to save more one could probably purchase some off excess stock from a mini-lab). One can also make or purchase some inexpensive developers.

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Declining demand, low prices and an unfortunate (for producers) price elastity of demand has led the industry into a corner: Photographic materials have excellent return to scale (costs decline as you produce more) but with less sales they would, to maintain profit, have call to raise prices but need to keep prices down (or even lower them) to maintain some sales. Its a vicious circle.

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Instead what are the two mantras I hear in these forums? "Oh, will I be able to get film tommorrow" and "Oh, I want it cheaper"... and both seem to have the same painted on tears..

[silent1]

You're right, Edward.

 

I shouldn't be able to afford photography at all, or only the kind of "finish the film from last Christmas at the kids' birthday parties" photography my parents did when I was a kid (in the 1960s).

 

How many times have I heard this stuff? When I can't afford to take my cat to the vet every time she coughs, I'm told if I can't afford 3-4 vet trips a year I shouldn't have a pet at all. When I can't afford to replace my 15 year old van with a new car that burns less than half the gas, but will cost 2/3 of what I pay for rent, I hear I obviously can't afford to drive at all -- it must be cheaper to call a taxi, right?

 

Simply put, I operated on a "finish the roll next year" basis for most of twenty years, because I couldn't afford photography. I took other things in college because I couldn't afford the equipment that would be required for a photography related major. I've never owned a new camera in my life -- not even an Instamatic or Polaroid -- until the last couple years, with a P&S and then a mid-range consumer digital. By your standards, or any reasonable standard, I can't afford photography.

 

But at my age, and with the state of the industry, if I don't do it now, I'll never have the chance, and if I don't do it on the cheap, I can't do it. So please keep your concerns about whether it's "right" to buy what I can afford in context with whether it's "right" to deny people like me, who have the passion but not the resources, access to materials.

 

And if you just like converting "Wow, I found something nice that I can afford" into "wow, I'm a shit who's ruining the world", then please go jump off the nearest high cliff and let me get on with trying to enjoy my life.

[jay_de_fehr]

Donald,

 

thank you for posting your results with a film I haven't had an opportunity to try yet. Is it available in sheets?

 

Jay

[silent1]

Jay, as far as I can see, it's not available in sheet form (though who knows what Lucky may be selling in China but not exporting). J&C Photo would be the ones to ask; if it's coated and cut in sheets, they can most likely special order it, even if they don't plan to stock it.