._._z Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 <i><blockquote> sugar daddy is Hermes, a hugely profitable French company that may if anything ncrease its stake. Why, you ask? Because it sees Leica as an upscale luxury market leader in analogue and hopefully digital photography once the R and M backs are perfected. </blockquote> </i><p> Suddenly Hermes is going to bet on digital for Leica to save the company, reverse its sales tailspin, and repay an increased investment? Not bloody likely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
._._z Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 <i><blockquote> Leica should have studied Norton and Triumph in the mid 70's. </blockquote> </i><p> Leica should have studied Honda and other manufacturers of low-end, high-volume products who used their manufacturing expertise to move upscale, compared to expensive, niche manufacturers who ended up losing market share or dying or getting bought out. <p> If it survives it will be a much, much smaller company, or will refocus to be a high-end Sigman, or simply end up a nameplate for whoever buys them out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad_ Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 <I>cameras are about making visual art; phonographs, to an audiophile, are about making musical art.</I><P> So silly...<P> Cameras are tools that let <i>photgraphers</i> make visual art. With the above mindset , it's easy to see why some here are so misguided about photography. And phonographs making musical art? Amazing... Seems musicians might be at odds with that as well. www.citysnaps.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricM Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 " Leica should have studied Honda and other manufacturers of low-end, high-volume products who used their manufacturing expertise to move upscale, compared to expensive, niche manufacturers who ended up losing market share or dying or getting bought out." that's exactly why i said they should study the losers, Norton and Triumph, dummy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_elek Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 Chapter 11 is bankruptcy protection. It gives a company time to reorganize without the fear of being hammered by creditors. Chapter 7 is liquidation. Out of business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beau 1664876222 Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 "What's the big deal? It's just a box with film in it....if nothing else works then youre done, go bowling or white river rafting. Take some culinary arts classes....move on. If you want to take pics you still got your box or get another. WTF??" There's no big deal, it's just an interesting discussion. I like photography, I own some Leica products, and my day job is buying and selling companies... actually, not just my day job, I'm at work now :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beau 1664876222 Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 "And phonographs making musical art? Amazing... Seems musicians might be at odds with that as well." That's what painters said about photography... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex_fan1 Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 The turnover for the camera system sales was dropped 50% (base on the interim result of 2004). It may contribute by two main causes; 1. Declining of the traditional film photography (raising of digital photography), 2. Poor marketing and pricing strategy. I believe the first one is the not the major failure cause. Leica is already in the niche market, the market segment who use or intent to use Leica camera are more inert to the attraction from digital photography. We value mechanic perfection, feeling, shooting experience, tradition quality, etc... of Leica camera. Well, I think Leica shall focus more on marketing and education. To the mass of people, Leica conotates luxury and classy, which is not the whole truth, it simply drives lots of people away. Most of us / people become Leica addicts only after they have experience with it. The CL line was a good way to 'educate' people to appreciate the use of Leica as a photography tool, since it is more affordable. I wonder if Leica can have a new line of low-cost product to draw in people and let the try with the Leica experience. This may be a good way to capture a larger market segment and eventually they will upgrade to the M-class. It doesn't make any business sense to subsidies a losing money business unit by other making money business units (hence result of diversification) unless there is some other value in it. The traditional camera line of Leica must be / need to be self-sustain else it cannot last long even by diversification. Good luck Leica ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ray . Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 wtf Ed this is the Leica forum aint it? We may need to call it the 'Box' forum soon, people need to know. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grant_. Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 slave to da man... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad_ Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 Further to what Edmo said, serious photographers will just find another tool and make the photos they need/want to make. Unless it's really about camera ownership, then I can see where some might go into a deep funk. www.citysnaps.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
__jon__ Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 >Bob Atkins (www.bobatkins.com) ?, feb 21, 2005; 03:58 p.m. >"It seems to be a law of nature that cheap inferior products produced in quantity, whether by genetics or manufacturing, will overcome and replace expensive, less numerous high quality items. " >You mean like Ferraris, Gucci handbags, Cartier jewelery and Rolex watches? Bwaaaaaaaaahahahaha! I take it you haven't been on Canal Street in NYC lately?? It is always interesting to see which Leica threads attract non-Leica owners--all the usual ones are here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ray . Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 do they make deep funk music with turntables? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricM Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 "dummy" I didn't mean to include that before I hit submit. I'm surprised to see how well this discussion is going and ment to bite my lip and...and Jon just showed up :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ray . Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 It's not a life or death issue, no, but some of us have used these particular types of boxes for a long time, and like the design of how they operate. I can use any camera, but this is news about the company of the camera I use, so to some of us who use Leicas it's probably more important and interesting to those who don't. The type of box and how it operates affects the kind of photographs that are made at least a little, if it didn't we'd all be using cardboard pinholes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_west Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 man, and i just let my M6J go for a bargin - now that's not funky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonpg Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 Well this explains why I have not received the magazine since I subscribed 3 weeks ago! Silence is often a sign of agony! Very sad indeed. But, there may be light on the horizon. Clearly the banks would have to have lost confidence in the board and management's inability to steer the company in a profitable direction. I wonder if there is a "white knight" on the horizon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eugene_scherba Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 deep inside, I'm ecstatic about the news. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kens Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 Why would you be estatic about this, Eugene? Seems odd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eugene_scherba Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 I considered getting an M Leica for a while, and now I'm sooo glad I didn't make that, in retrospect, very, very, decadently wrong decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_hoffman Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 This thread is sure bringing out all of the loony-balls out there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsbc Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 The really funny thing is - Hermes' investment did not help Leica's financial position at all. When Hermes made their investment (back in 2001, I think) they bought old shares at market price. At that time, I thought it was the last chance the smart insiders could sell their stock at a good price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eugene_scherba Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 let's face it, Leica is (was) just a fetish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eugene_scherba Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 just like other Hermes stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eugene_scherba Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 Words "upscale" or "luxury" make no sense in professional photo equipment. It's either being marketed as a professional tool or as a fetish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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