Shoot a Stradivarius

[ben conover]

Hi, I am a beginner in photography, and I love it. I shoot a Nikon

F4s, a Fujica G690BL, and I need a super speed graphic for the shoot

I am about to describe. I have been asked to photograph a

Stradivarius violin made in 1666. I will use the working photos as

an aid to making an exact copy of the instrument for my friend to

buy and give as a present to his fiancee. The Strad is currently

played by my friends fiancee, also a player. In addition to the

working photos I need, I will also be shooting 'copy style' so I can

later enlarge into posters. I have reasearched the working methods

needed extensively already.

 

I need some real advice about how to do the shoot, considering the

subject is worth in excess of $2,000,000 How much should I charge

my friends for the shoot ??

 

 

Cheers and best wishes.

[edward_h]

If it's for your friend then I would advise against charging anything for it. Friends do each other favors so one day your free shoot will be payed back I figure.

 

Other than that: DON'T TOUCH THE VIOLIN YOURSELF. Ask the player to pose the violin for you.

 

My god... A two million dollar violin... Jesus.

[ben conover]

Hey thanks for the reply !

 

I am also a player and I have had my paws on lots of expensive violins. I want to charge for the shoot because it is part of the

proccess of making a copy (I am a violinmaker) of the Strad. I am a beginner at photography though, and I need advice about the proper proceedures involved with this type of thing.

 

Although I have researched the topic well, I may have overlooked some things. I reckon the shoot would last a couple of hours total, I want to take my time. There are many fine photographs of this particular Strad already available by mail order in large poster form. I want to make similar photos for my own use and as I said before, with the possibility of having posters made for people.

 

Any thoughts on the subject from people with experience much appreciated, cheers and many thanks.

[edward_h]

http://images.google.com/images?&q=violin

 

The ones with the black backgrounds generally tend to be most impressive due to the violin's lighter (contrasty) color.

[ben conover]

Hi Edward,

 

I have seen photos of violins, the majority of them are shot on plain white backgrounds. I will check your link now, Cheers.

[ben conover]

Hi, whilst I do appreciate help from people in learning about photography, links to google searches are not my cup of tea.

 

Like I said, any help or advice concerning my original post from people with experience is appreciated.

 

Cheers.

[J.W. Wall]

Hire a pro? (Photographers don't make violins; violinmakers don't make pro photos?) Presumably you've considered any insurance and liability issues.

[ben conover]

I asked for help in handling a shoot, and for advice about the right amount to charge for that shoot. I also asked for advice only from those people able to be helpful, I find you to be unhelpful.

[websterforrest]

Hiya,

 

You ask about how much to charge... If you earn part of your living from photography, then charge your normal fee. If you don't earn any of your living from photography, then don't charge. It sounds like the photographs are just a sideline to the main project of making the violin anyway. I have a good friend who had a long and very successful carreer as a fashion photographer, and he convinced me if it's your living, never do it for free. It rubs some people up the wrong way to think like that, but there you go. At the end of the day, that is your decision and you must be happy with it!

 

About photographing the violin: I would suggest you decide what kind of lighting you want: do you want fairly bright lighting everywhere, or would you like a dark background and possibly single-source diffused light to bring out the wood's colours agains the black? If it were me, I'd go for the latter, in which case I'd suggest a North-facing window (or a window that when you're shooting doesn't have direct light coming into it) with a large sheet of waxpaper or some other improvised diffuser (a white bedsheet, though this can create incongruous shadows if it drapes at all) over the window. Set up a table by the window, and get some black felt or other material that doesn't reflect much light and create a support that you can clip the material to so your violin is the only thing in the picture (if that's what you want). I would also suggest you do the following trick to get the best exposure setting: put the back of your hand (this assumes you have 'white' skin) in the middle of the lit area where the violin is, bring the camera up close (too close to focus doesn't matter, the meter will still show the right reading) without letting the camera itself block any light, and take your reading. Set the camera to manual, and pull back to compose. Just use the reading you took from the back of your hand (or an 18% grey card if you have one!) and the light will look really natural and beautiful in the photographs.

 

Best of luck - please do post the results!

 

Webster

 

P.S. Don't forget to leave the wood for the new violin in a barrel of rainwater!

[ben conover]

To J.W. Wall,

 

(Photographers don't make violins; violinmakers don't make pro photos?)

 

I have no interest in being what you might call a pro photographer.

I am happy with what I can do, and I feel very much able to handle

the shoot I outlined so carefully for you. What I do not have is the

experience, and that is simply why I asked for help. Please do not consider me to be arrogant, I am only here to learn, and I am a beginner. If that makes sense to you, good.

[ben conover]

Hiya Webster, I have already tried to cover what I need to know about the shoot as I said very clearly. Here is a link which gives you people a much better idea:

 

http://www.tarisio.com/info/info_photo.php

 

Since the shoot is part of the violin making making proccess, and since I am taking this much time at least to plan things, I will charge what I like, thanks. I just want to know if any of you people with experience have ever shot a Strad and if so, how much did you charge?

[beau 1664876222]

Don't put the violin on top of your car and drive away (a Strad was actually lost that way).

[ben conover]

Very good point Beau* -

 

I lost a Viola once, when I was a young player. I put the case in the back of the car for an hour...... when I returned it was gone.

 

 

Anyone got ideas on Shooting a Strad?

[garry edwards]

As you make violins and presumably have some available, why not create a dummy shot showing the features you need to show on the Strad, and post it in the lighting forum with your request for help?

 

As for charging, if I were in your shoes I think I'd be happy to absorb the time taken for the shoot into the time taken for making the copy.

 

2 hour shoot? I don't think so, you need to allow more than this.

 

Hope this helps

[ellis_vener_photography]

What is the finish like -highly reflective or somewhat muted/ probably the best way will

be to take 2 large (4ft x 8 ft or whatever the similar meteric size is ) white foam core

panels and use those as reflector panels , at an angle on either of the long side ofthe

instrument , sort of like a pup tent ifthe violin is lying on its back or in a vee if the viloin is

propped up on a stand. The camera position is atthe apex of the "Vee" You will aim what

ever lights you use at these panels so that the violin is light indirectly. if you are using

several small light sources you can try aiming them at different parts of the of the panels

to get different dimensional effects in the final image effects. You may also want to have

some black foam core that you can cut up to help shape the light fall off and shape of the

highlights. It is a good idea to have them bring in a similar instrument that is not as

valuable. Use this as a stand in for the Stradivarius until you get the lighting set.

isuspectthe whole process may take more like a half day or possibly longer depending on

how picky you are about gettign it right -- this kind of time isn't uncommon in high level

professional advertising & editorial photography.

 

If you are concerned about getting the color reproduction accurate include a Macbeth or

Kodak color chart in the image area so you have a known reference color guide when

printing. What are you planning on using for light & media?

 

As to how much to charge? I'd work it into your fee as a violin builder. If you came to me

I'd probably want anywhere from $500 - 2500 dollars depending on how the image were

to be used and if you were a friend or not. The value of the violin is irrelevant unless I also

had to get special liability insurance to cover it while it was in my studio.

[ben conover]

Thanks Garry and Ellis,

 

I have a good idea what I want for lighting now after having received so much valuable input from yourselves and others.

Especially helpful is the lighting diagram from Ellis.

I will be using a super speed graphic, lighting will be basic and sufficient. I will take the advice of Ellis and use one of my own violins before the shoot as a test run. I will gladly post what I can when I can, but I will do the shoot first.

 

This link shows what I will be trying to achieve when shooting a Strad:

http://www.tarisio.com/info/info_photo.php

 

 

I posted this in the business section because I want to charge for the shoot separately if possible, I was enquiring about rates.

I understand that the value of the violin is irrelevant to you, but

it is not irrelevant to me or the owners of it. Having photos of the violin to work from, and also for poster enlargements is valuable to me, the player, the buyer, the owners, and anyone wanting a Strad poster.

 

As a beginner I do understand the need to learn and absorb before charging for a shoot. The figures Ellis mentioned ($500 - 2500 dollars) are interesting, many thanks indeed.

[ellis_vener_photography]

if you are planning on doing a poster down the line make sure you get a property release

signed by the owner of the instrument. As you point out it is very valuable and probably

has a unique appearence. This is just to cover yourself down the line. The link you

provided also looks like it is a very workable set up so I assume your post is just about

how to charge.

[ben conover]

Hi Ellis,

 

thanks very much for the advice about obtaining the property release.

I have no experience in obtaining such a property release, but I am hoping my friend and the current player of the Strad have some idea of how to contact the owner. The topic is very interseting for me since access to such valuable instruments is usually restricted to the owner and player. Hopefully I will get better access and more opportunities to do such work as a result of the shoot.

 

All the best wishes.

[jtdnyc]

There's a man named Michael Darnton who is both a professional violinmaker and violin photographer. His website, through which he can be contacted, is darntonviolins.com.

 

I've never dealt with him, but if I were looking for information on photographing violins, he'd be the person I'd contact first.

[ben conover]

Hi Jonathan, I will try the contact thanks very much. Darnton's work as a maker looks very good, his work in photography is also very interesting. The idea never occured to me, I hope to get in touch with him.

 

Cheers!

[ben conover]

Hi, Jonathan, I tried the link and spoke with Michael Darnton, nice guy. He says that for violin photography he uses digital for the shoot, and a laser beam (usually sold as a leveling device) for measuring the instrument shape exactly, purposes of copying etc.

 

 

Many thanks.

[jtdnyc]

Ben, I'm glad you found some of the information you need.

 

There is a a W/NW thread on the Leica Forum right now titled "Autumn Violins," or something like that. You might want to take a look, even though I doubt it's really what you're looking for. In that thread, an occasional contributor named Ollie Steiner has re-posted some of his very nice shots of violinists in action.

 

Good luck with your project.

 

By the way, if your friend's fiancee is playing a Strad, I assume she is playing, at least sometimes, in public. Please let me know when her performance schedule will bring her to New York, so that I may buy a ticket and hear the violin (and violinist) in question.

 

Thanks.

[ben conover]

Hi Jonathan, about the concert tickets, if you are ever in London you can hear many fine players and many fine Strads. My Good friend Josh is an excellent teacher and player, his Fiancee Corina is an outstanding soloist, streets ahead the likes of me!

I doubt if Corina does regular tours to U.S.A, since she is very much London based, but if she does I hope she will be using the violin I make for her! If you go to a concert, take a camera!

 

Also about Michael Darnton, he emailed me a very interesting link

about the work he does using lasers to measure curves etc.

You can go here to see a little movie of this violin, but it's big (five megs) and has to be played in Windows Media Player:

 

http://darntonviolins.com/images2/BrosAmati-arch.wmv

 

I think it is a great way to work since it is very safe, although compared to the traditional analogue measuring ststems it may be less effevtive. In addition to that idea I think that perhaps lasers are a very useful way to measure distance in photography, like a laser rangefinder........ post for another forum!

 

I will take a look at the other forums now since I have many helpful answers about charging to shoot a Strad.

 

Thanks to all, and best wishes form Ireland.

[ben conover]

Hi Jonathan, I took a quick look at the W/NW thread on the Leica Forum titled "Autumn Violins," nice to see some great B/W shots of a beautiful instrument. Ollie Steiner has some very nice shots of violinists in action, for sure. I also want to try and get some action photos when shooting the Strad, Corina, and Josh.....

Come to think of they are engaged to be Married, so I guess they

need a wedding snapper too! Only kidding........

I appreciate that I need to get some results to show, but I will take my time and get to work on shooting the Strad as best I can.

 

Thanks to all.

[scott aitken]

When considering what to charge, I think you are making too much out of the fact that you

are photographing a $2 million object. If you take out the consideration that you are

building a duplicate violin, what you are talking about is being hired to photograph it.

When someone suggested you build it into your fee for the second violin, you specifically

stated you wanted to charge the photography separately. You ask what is reasonable to

charge just for the photography. In other words, what would another professional

photographer charge to photograph the strad?

 

One reason you are not getting many precise specific price suggestions is that

photographer's fees are all over the map. Photographers tend to charge what they can

justify. A well known experienced photographer with a good portfolio can (and will) charge

more than an unknown inexperienced photographer without much of a portfolio. One

component of a fee is the photographer's skill and reputation. Another is the usage rights

you plan to sell to them, which depends on what they intend to do with the image. It is

supply and demand, just like any other business.

 

Since you are a "beginner in photography", you should not expect to charge the same fee

as a well known experienced photographer in your area. You probably should expect to

charge what unknown newer photographers in your area charge. In my area, a beginning

photographer should expect to charge less than $50 per hour.

 

The value of the violin has very little to do with your fee as a photographer (unless you

need some sort of insurance). From the standpoint of the photographer, there is no

difference in the skill or time required to photograph a $200 violin than a $2,000,000

violin.

 

Your link to a lighting setup looks fine. Although I personally would find it more

aesthetically pleasing to photograph it against a black backdrop. Ellis asked if the violin

has a shiny surface or not. If it is highly reflective, that could make your lighting trickier, in

order to reduce reflections. If the violin is very shiny, you might try polarizing your light

source, and then using a polarizing filter on your lens to eliminate most glare and saturate

the wood tones.

 

For this type of thing, you should definitely get a signed property release from the owner if

you ever want to use the images for commercial purposes (like a poster). Property releases

are fairly standard, and generic ones can be found in photo law books.