Real state of the new Rating system

[bbb1]

Christopher I am sick and tired of you constant SARCASM!!! and who is saying that I am going to give 7/7 to my friends??? Are you JaLOUS??? WHAT is your problem??? YOu dont have any friends on PN??? no public?? is that your main problem and concern???

I am tired of your ironic comments on my behalf, really!!!

You are just good to be sarcastic, nothing more. or maybe try to do Photography and less to give sarcastic comments! OK!?!??!?!

Even if I want to give my friends a higer rate, that is only My problem and my choice, who is going to forbidden it to me?? YOU???

I dont care for my rating, really but I still care for my friends, meaning I like their works and will like it as long as I am here on PN!

So, tell me what is wrong with you and what do you have against my FRIENDS??? They are my friends, not yours?!?!?!??!

I am tired of all this rating matter and of all your hostility!

Thank you for your sarcastic words!

You are not helping me, just annoying me!!!

Biliana

[dave_nitsche]

Biliana, I think the problem most of us are having with your statements are that we don't understand. You can still see your friends images. You can still rate them however you see fit.

 

The only difference here is that you have to re-sort to get to where the TRP was before. It's really not that big a deal.

[bbb1]

I had to open two windows so I can read your comment and give you a proper answer dear Martin!

Thank you for your remark concerning the time I have to spend if I want to look on all the photographs, and this is too much for me.

You are so right in all your points. thank you for highlighting it in some other words!

I see now that the photographer who is the most against the Mate-rating is Christopher Appoldt!!! and I dont know why??

For me, now, it is not longer the question of rating or being rated by others, but the confusion with all those photographs upside down on the site, and my spending of my time in rating and commenting.

Cause I want to leave a constructive comment under all my ratings, for my friends or other photographers on the site!

Maybe deep in myself I am of competitive nature, I can admit that, but I am competing in real life here in Belgrade, and submitting my photographs to international and local exibitions to be rated and choose, so actually I have nothing of that competitivity on PN, at least in real life I am collecting points to get my photographer degree of amator, so that is not the point for me!

I was just enjoying beautiful photographs on PN and trying to learn and improve my photography from better photographers! But now, I dont know, I am so lost and I am not learning anything!?!?!?

Oh, I am so tired of all this rating confusion!

Thank You for your constructive comment!

All my best, Biliana

[bbb1]

Dear Brian,

I dont know if you are informed, but most of the time, while I am rating, I am leaving a comment on the photograph too!

My point is that if I rate the usual way, when I see some photograph that I like and consider nice, beautiful or wow.. photographs, not necessarly that photograph is from a friend of mine, cause I am rating and commenting all photographs on the site, as you have noticed or not, I can hurt their rating, or maybe I dont have to pay attention to that fact, and just rating and commenting as I like,

then what I get???

Again I will have some people, like Christopher A. who is going to attack me for not rating in the proper way! and again someone will say that I am distroying the rating system. Where is the end to this?

This is not only about the wow 7s!

So obviously I have to adapt myself to the new rating system, but still I am spending too much time in rating and commenting, then before, and that makes me very tired, but obviously this is my OWN PROBLEM!

So, I thank you dear Brian, for your attention!

And maybe you prefer that I stop rating others, and only giving comments! Probably that is what I am going to do from now on!

Thank you,

warmest regards,

Biliana

[wirraway]

Hi Brian, I was a bit confused as to what was going on with the new system, after your explanation above I am now a happy camper, RATE RECENT AVERAGE is the only way to travel, this sort found 2 above Rate Recent Sum which is now the default works exactly the same way that

the old default Aveage worked, the differense being that all submissions have been through the honest Request for critique que.

 

So to summerise for Biliana and like minded.

 

Friends and ratematers = use the average sort.

Honest folk that want their work scored by the average member= use RATE RECENT AVERAGE as this sorts from highest to lowest for those people that do not have time to go through all the shots in RATE RECENT SUM.

 

Proberly the easy thing to have done was make RATE RECENT AVERAGE the default.

 

Thanks again Brian for a great site.

[bbb1]

YOu have a point here dear Sam, and yes it is good to change thing, but wisely, and personally I have nothing against changes, but...

I have to say only one thing - the one who is so against the so called Mate Rating is obviously Christopher Appoldt, and I would like to say that I am not rating and commenting ONLY my circle of Friends, but all others photographers which works I like, and I am not giving reciprocal 7s to my friends, cause I dont do that, and I am limited to 8 time of 7s, so I am trying to rate honestly and sincerely, but what can I do when I have so much photographs that I like!

Now I am more rigorous in giving the rating, cause I am thinking twice before giving a rate, all that because of this new rating system, but still I can see some people that they are rating not sincerely, but still the mate rating system.

Oh, well, I will adapt or I will leave all, cause I am so tired!

Thank you dear Sam for your constructive comment!

All my best, Biliana

[bbb1]

Yes Dave, this is not a big deal, and yes I can see my friends!

And yes I can rate them how I feel, but this will ruin their TRP rating! and If we ask them that is a big deal! No?

Thank you Dave, I think I will try to comment only, without rating, as a solution!

Warmest regards,

Biliana

[bbb1]

Well dear Ian, thank you for your explanation and your CONCLUSION for all of us Biliana LIke Minded! ;-) really ha ha !!

So If I understand well, daer Ian, YOu are putting me in the Dishonest folks??? hm, that is so unreal dear Ian!

I am the one who was rating from the beginning through the system Rate Recent and critique forum - request critics and when I finish with that rating, I went on the Top photos and rate more and comment more, so you dont have any rights to call me dishonest and mate-rater or ratematers!!!!

Oh, well, I will put an end to this unusfull discussion!

and will see what kind of photographer you are dear Ian!

Thank you for your SUBJECTIVE comment and conclusion!

Biliana

[dave_nitsche]

Biliana, see, don't understand. How will this ruin their TRP rating? Go to the average page and it won't. It won't get them in the default sort, that's all. Their rating will stay the same, it just won't be as visible.

 

For too long Biliana the default TRP has been controlled by only a few people. Good photographers? Some yes, some no. But everyone one who contributes to P.net should have the chance to get visibility. That was not a possibility until now. The TRP was the same names over and over because they got ratings from their friends who just blasted out 7's like they were going out of style.

 

Just commenting is probably a good alternative Biliana. But if you do rate, it means as much today as it did a week or two ago. There is no difference in it except your perception of it.

[martyn_oliver]

Biliana wrote: " I think I will try to comment only, without rating, as a solution!"

 

Biliana, I think that is the wisest and most fair thing to do. So far, the greatest controversy

I have seen here at PN has been the complaint that people rate (usually low) but do not

bother to make a criticism. To my mind, what value is a rating? It is only a subjective

award of points on an artificial scale. By far the most useful reaction to someone's

photograph is to make a comment and a constructive criticism. Personally, I very very

rarely give a rating, because I find it difficult to be objective and accurate. But I see your

comments in many places as I look at various photographers' work, and always you have

something pleasant, or something useful, to say.

[bbb1]

So Dave, you have the point here for the PN having been controlled by a minority of photographers and the rest were invisible, but I was going through all pages, starting from the first one, til the last one and with that I was able to see almost all the photographs that they were submittet that day, or last 3 days, but again, maybe that is me and my passion for photography, and my free time to spend it so much on PN, that I find to be the best photography site on Internet!

Yes, you are probably right that the Rating is meaning more today then before, but still you have the so called Mate Rating, even now!

Oh, well, I am going to try my best to rate and comment or only comment!

Thank you dear Dave for your attention and time!

Warmest regards, Biliana

[bbb1]

Oh, thank you dear Martyn for your comment and support! Finally someone has seen that I am not part of the Mate Rating system, but just a lover of Photography! oh, thank you dear Martyn!!

I think that I am going to do that - only comments and I will try as always to leave a useful comment if I can provide one!

And as you have probably noticed already, still we have only rating without any comments! and really what is the point of rating?

Thank you dear Martyn.

Warmest regards,

Biliana

[sammm]

By the way, I stand corrected if I implied anything on mate rating with respect to you individually. I did look at your top ratings, and I saw a nice cross section of a variety of photographers and all photographs where I thought a high rating was justified. Yes, you rate a bit higher than me overall, but you're probably just a nicer person than I am!

[martyn_oliver]

Sam said: "...but you're probably just a nicer person than I am!"

 

I expect that remark was made tongue-in-cheek, but it shows just how false the rating

system is. How can you depend on the integrity of any rating that is awarded from a

position of niceness (or otherwise)? There should be a ratings calibrator available onsite to

adjust a rater's output to a common standard! Or then again...

[bbb1]

Thank you Sam for having notice my love and passion for Photography in general :))))

 

 

It is not a question of being nice but of being honest and sincere!

 

But NOW I am going to be even more SERIOUS and SINCERE with my critics and comments with all - the not so nice things - I HAVE to say about some photographs, of course if I have to and for the only reason to help them to IMPROVE THEIR PHOTOGRAPHS!

 

I hope AGAIN that nobody is going to be offend, cause I am using the new rating system from 3 to 5!

 

Still I cannot understand how some not so good photographs receive the rating of 5/5 while they are deserving less than 3!?

 

Nobody is sincere and honest or what???

 

 

And I am rating and always leaving a comment!

 

Thank you Sam,

 

all my best, Biliana

[sammm]

Ratings will always be subjective, and my statement was sincere. That's part of why an average of 10 will always be more interesting than any one rating. A photo is not a "3" or a "7"; it is a photo and the "3" and "7" are just our opinions.

 

You can think of it another way. A friend of mine once gave up being a lawyer to become an Episcopal priest. After a year or so in a particular church, one of the parishioners commented to her that she had always been extremely nice for a lawyer, but she was a bit mean for a priest.

 

I'm a lawyer, but if some of you want to be priests, I say bless you.

[cappoldt]

Biliana! Woah now!

 

First of all, I answered your initial question right from the beginning. Second, your conlusion, above, that you rate "more seriously" and NOT leave number marks on friends when critiquing was also my suggestion, as seen above. In fact, we've talked in email extensively about those two very points for weeks. Now you agree? And gosh darn it, you're not even going to acknowledge that I wrote it forty times? I'm hurt, and deeply saddened.

 

Third, I am too good for more than sarcasm. I'm a good cuddler, for example. I make a delicious lasagna (just a smidge of rosemary is the trick). I'm a reliable dog sitter. I too always, always remember to rewind the VCR tapes before returning them to Blockbuster, and those tapes and DVDs make it back on-time, too - no late fees, ever.

[bbb1]

First of all, I will rate and comment as I pleased, nobody is going to change that! Now I am just being more severe than before, cause I am tired of being treated of nice materatter!

So, please Christopher dont waste you time with this issue any more, cause I will not reply to you anymore for this subject matter!

Second, you are still being sarcastic with me??? or I am going to treat you as a big joker!?!??!

Anyway, I am closing this discussion!

and I am rating regulary through the Rate recent system, as I always do, with or without tne new rating system daer Christopher.

And please go and make some lazagna and invite me to taste it instead putting unusfull comments on this issue!

Stay well, Biliana

[bens]

Hi Biliana,

Like any change, this change of the default page for the top rate photos seems somewhat confusing and has its plusses and minuses to me.

 

On the one hand, I think art should evoke emotional responses. Rating with your heart seems totally right to me, including repeatedly for those works of friends which you admire. Your rating deserves to count as much as anyone else's.

 

On the other hand, particularly in the last year, there was so much very very very high rating (without comments that said very much) on a relatively small number of people's works that a few negative things happened. First, the default page for the top rated photos became dominated by a relatively small number of people for a very long time, which became boring because the types of photos displayed became very limited. Second, as people noticed that other people ran around handing out 7's like candy, they started to do the same thing, or started to complain bitterly and often inappropriately about people personally, filling the atmosphere of this site with an unnecessarily competitive spirit.

 

It appears that the change in the default of the top rated photos is intended to correct the logjam in the top rated photos that had the works of only a fairly small number people prominently displayed. Overall, I think its better for all of us and the site that the works of many different people gets prominently displayed. Diversity in the art displayed makes things more interesting and will help us learn more.

 

Also, Brian has written in this forum that he is aware of the problem caused by rating outside the rate recent function, and suggested he will correct it down the road.

 

There may be some drawback to this way. I hope that people remember to COMMENT as much or more than they rate, because that is the best way for all of us to learn. And in my view, this should not be treated as a competition, but as an open workshop, so more emphasis on ratings of any sort can have its drawbacks.

 

But regardless, I am going to try to work with this system for awhile before drawing any real conclusions. I hope you will join me. You are such a fine photographer and friend; photo.net is much better off, I am much better off, with your participation.

 

Best to you,

 

Ben

[cappoldt]

Biliana, I will make you that lasagna. It will be a delicious and most special lasagna, prepared with the most perfect balance of the finest beef and veal available. The cheeses, selected with care, will be fresh and with firm character. The sauce I shall make of only the best local, organic tomatoes, and I will not add too much basil, because we all know that excess basil is really a sign of an inexperiened cook, catering to a thoughtless pallette. It will be sinful, baked slowly at 350 degees(farenheit). It will be the greatest lasagna, ever.

 

Afterwards, some cuddling would be nice.

[bbb1]

Thank you dear Christopher!

YOu are a great joker and a man with great sense of humor,but please stop this! why did you give to all other members of PN the ingredients of the Lasagna?? Dont you think that PN is not a site for coooking?? Stop your jokes Christopher! You are abusing the Forum!

Thank you,

Biliana

[bens]

Chris, you win "The Ugly American" award. Nice job. Who will you alienate next?

[bbb1]

oh, thank you dear Ben,

 

for such nice explication and your words!

 

Being a woman and a sensitive and sensible soul, I am touched deeply and I am grateful to you for having hightlighting all that, so much better than I have tried to express myself in my not so good English!

 

 

YOu are right in all points and I agree with you completely!

 

I like very much your idea of PN as Workshop, cause I am here to learn more about photography and to improve myself!

 

Thank you dear Friend, I will be patient and wise with my rating and comments!

 

All my best to you,

Biliana

[cappoldt]

Gosh Ben, I dunno. Point me to someone else who'll argue for weeks about the justification of "from the heart" and biased rating practices, sit idle while their pals send me hate email about what were intended to be genuinely helpful and constructive criticisms (you're welcome to research), throw a tantrum about how unfair it is that these same people can't benefit from their ratings in the TRP, which doesn't really matter, either, they say, and then insult me, in the end stating that they're gonna do exactly what I politely suggested weeks prior that they be open to trying anyway.

 

They'll do. No nationality-specific requirements, we're an equal-opportunity offender here.

[bens]

chris, sometimes you make me laugh, and i have appreciated some of your insiights, but sometimes i think you go too far and harrass, not always with enough proof for the harshness of your attack and sometimes inexcusably regardless of what you believe has been done wrongfully. i try to stay out of it and try not to get personal, but i found the line, "Afterwards, some cuddling would be nice," that you wrote above to be too offensive and unjustified to ignore. and you are right, my award label was meant to tweak you for your own nation-specific references in the past.