Some more photographs by Al Kaplan

[belledeux diana]

I would most likely say in comment to Al's punishment (for being against digital...and I'm not really sure he is...he is just cautious about an industry we've all been paying to develop....who else bought a 1.2 megapixal camera when that was the biggest....and computers..whoa, I remember thinking, "Why can't this work like a refridgerator...just plug it in....well, with a Mac that's possible......: )........and I think when the time is right, and the camera is right, from what I gather, he would not at all be against a digital format for certain jobs....I don't think any photographer interested in showing goes completely digital...do they?...unless, like video artists..the medium is the message.......,and also, for those who chide Al for his total silver gelatin Leicaness with a side of Brooks Plaubel Veriwide 100 , all I can say is.... <I>Stand back if Al ever decides to go digital.....</I>.

 

<P>

But I would also like to say, that the posts are interesting and it looks like a good lot of "us" (PN) have a lot of "airing out to do".....so "blasting it".....clearing out the systems, will make for better friends....those of the intelligence quotient who are ready for that after a good blast, ....getting to know you....to know him(you) is to love you.....kind of thing.....might make us a more cohesive group.....so I would say blasting is good for growth.....just don't forget to grow.....the good analyst will tell you, the problem is always within your self....otherwise you wouldn't have noticed......

<P>

For my part, in a forum, about photography, technical or aesthetic, a little personality thrown in is good....it makes a forum more conversational......and discussions are better than "Posts", n'est pas?

[belledeux diana]

Gee, when did I become such a preacher....(no pun intended, Al! : )

 

<P>....the rhythm of speech gets to me sometimes and I forget what I'm saying...or not saying...so much for the Luddites....huh?

<P>I love the sense of humor that is expressed sometimes in "bad posts" and must laugh myself.....but I do like them lite!

<P>

Anyway, I wasn't around in the old days for Doris' posts, but they sound great.....would love to join a forum for like that.....I apologize for my pomposity, but at the same time, walk away...sneak away?...grinning and smiling, because of Brad's humor in his list of critique, he really gave it to me good...and right on.... I think I got the best of the deal.....and a big head...from it....it was too good and too "on"!

<P>

<I>(....Okay, okay...shut up, Belle Deux....!)</I>

[pics]

Its amazing how hard people try to find fault in a photograph by someone they despise. I actually really do like that rope shot. I think the "murkiness" or darkness of the background makes the kids stand out better and brings more attention to their actions. I'm sure if it was the 1 billionth shot of NYC commuters on a sidewalk or in the subway and Al used an alias it would receive a better reception from the "Al-haters" Life is a great thing if you actually have one to enjoy. I suspect some that have posted in this thread don't.

[terry_rory]

Golden rule number 1....

 

Don't stick your neck out there!<div></div>

[terry_rory]

If you talk about photography and do not post pics you will be flamed.

 

If you DO post up photographs, you will sometimes be flamed.

 

I post pics of things rural, local, churches, colour, B&W, film, digital, rangefinder, P&S whatever. I can guarantee some degree of negative feedback because there is always something in that list to upset someone.

 

Al has started posting photos (and having them posted) and I have no doubt this will be just the start of a very rich seam of interest both historical, cultural and photographic.

 

So he has "stuck his neck out" hence my point.

 

It is inevitable that some of the 'young turks' will want to cut it off. Please continue to post more photographs Al.

[al_kaplan1]

Thanks Trevor. I have a long neck but tough hide. Yeah, I have a very large file of B&W photos from all kinds of various asignments going back years and years. I might not have the greatest of computer skills but one way or another I'll keep posting. Belle still has a few more scans to post maybe later today, maybe tomorrow.

 

As for that cute chick the minister is talking to outside the store at night, just remember it ain't 1969 no more, she's 36 years older now, likely long ago traded her cute figure in on children and grandchildren, and is doing something else for a living these days.

 

James, if you're so hot to trot for some Johnny Cash photos, how 'bout next time you're in town YOU look through the contact sheets. I think I have some with him and Dylan playing together.

[michael s.]

<<< Al has started posting photos (and having them posted) and I have no doubt this will be just the start of a very rich seam of interest both historical, cultural and photographic.>>>

 

Correct, Trevor. In the first 24 hrs, we've gone from a US President (and a VP) to a streetwalker, with a stop at a seniors' costume party for a breather. Thus far we've got street, photojournalism, and family.

 

I guess this man must've taken (and published) a few pictures after all -:)

[james mitchell dc]

Al, why did you ever give up the M4 that took most of these pics?

[al_kaplan1]

I bought a new M4 when they first came out, added a double stroke M3, then a button rewind M2 followed by a brand new M2-R when they came out. Eventually the M4 got a bit ratty looking and I ran into another in great shape at a good price. I sold the first one. The second M4 was stolen a few years later.

[doris_chan]

Paul:"Doris, if there are a few people here posting crummy pix with expensive camera,

what's the harm?"

 

I don't think there is any harm, which I actually said in response to Brad's comments. I also

never attack people just for posting bad pictures, that's more Jeff and grant's turf -

one of the first times I posted here it was to actually rescue somebody on the wrong end

of a tag team bullying session courtesy of J and g. If I mildly challenge somebody it's in

response to them spouting actual misinformation - the Kaptain falls firmly into this

category. Al says strange things about a medium - digital - that he doesn't understand

and in turn provokes strange threads like this one. Half of the people here reward him for

his attacks on digital (by massively overpraising his images) and the other half punish him

(by being overcritical of his images).

 

"I miss threads like the ones you used to post, turning us on to interesting photographers"

 

Sadly, the tumbleweed blows through posts like that. People really would rather talk about

Baldigi lizard skin cases and the pros and cons of black or chrome. Rene found this out to

his cost when he began his threads linking to images at Magnum, very few people posted

and most of those that did only did so to ridicule the work of photographers who were

foolish enough to disregard the rule of thirds. Anyway Paul, check out this link and let me

know what you think:

 

http://www.magnumphotos.com/c/htm/FramerT_MAG.aspx?

Stat=Portfolio_DocThumb&V=CDocT&E=2TYRYDAEYHMT&DT=ALB

 

He's one of the very few genuinely original photographers to become a nominee in recent

years.

 

"I suppose recent events mean that we will end up with two boring forums, rather than one

diverse, often intriguing one"

 

I guess one persons intrigue is anothers tedium......

[jtk]

IMO it's worthwhile to actually look at the work of people who have whined here about technical issues, ignoring the merits of Als images.

 

The individuals who leaped to comment on the scans aren't anywhere near Al's level as photographers. Look at their photos.

[Brad_]

John, since you are making such a big point of comparing photographs of different

photographers, apparently solely because you seem to have a casual attitude about quality

and workmanship of one's work, I'd like to ask you a couple of questions - in the spirt of

your comment above, that those that take a position on their craft, need to have their

photos compared with others.<P>

 

Are you a photographer? Can we see <I>your</i> photos for comparison? I have a

feeling the answers are "no" and "no."

[EricM]

"Certain contributors to the Mutual Admiration Forum (a/k/a Street and Documentary) appear to be mounting a series of drive-by attacks on any thread that contains a photograph by Al Kaplan, basically because of prior arguments over Al's preference for film-based photography."

 

No Johnathan, we're just kinda sick of this mentality you and others display. There's too many here that can't walk with their talk; that become a braver and meaner person with a keyboard. I gravitated over there and started many threads to jump start an alternative to avoid tossers like you here and hopefully build a community on embracing diverse interests that use many methods of photographing. Many from here are now there. I haven't witnessed any flames or insults or any mean spiritedness. It's refreshing. There was never an intent for a division between that place and this place, but merely just a reluctance to be continually blasted here by below average photographers and shooters with expensive and elitist gear that still seem to think they own and invest in a dominant brand.

 

With the deletion of grant, the lack of input Tony had in a few threads about the shape and direction of this forum, and Bob suddenly sticking his nose into it, it became evident that this place isn't for me and many others now.

[jasper1]

When I see grungy lookin, badly focused you have only to look at the work of kochanowski.

 

Refreshing to hear the words of the masters.

[Brad_]

<I> Refreshing to hear the words of the masters.</I><P>

 

And calling the other place <I>the Mutual Admiration Forum</I>, without first taking

even a tiny peek in the mirror here, is just too funny...

[jasper1]

I can only humble my unworthy self at your feet great masters. Please excuse my unworthy presumptuousness?.

[dennis_couvillion]

With all due respect, what I've observed is a group of competent photographers with similar styles who share some sort of collective fantasy that they comprise an elite corps of cutting edge shooters. In truth, one can throw a rock out of one's back window and probabaly strike a competent photographer. It seems to me plain arrogance to deride the offerings of others here as "dreadful" and other such adjectives, particularly coming from photographers who've yet proven themselves.

 

With respect to Al Kaplan, I am too old and cynical to be anyone's disciple. However, I (and I suspect others as well) have been drawn to Al's defense simply because the attacks on him have been so peristently mean and personal. And over what? Because Al is digital averse? Because you believe some of the things he says are incorrect? I've never met Al in person but I have communicated with him by e-mail over the years and he seems to be a truly kind, humble and helpful man. I suspect that many others here who have met or otherwise communicated with Al have reached the same conclusion and that is why they jump to his defense.

 

It's a shame that this forum has devolved into the snake pit it has. I know I had to take a break from it. I was truly happy to learn that those who felt this forum did not meet their exacting standards had found a venue to their liking. But why are some of you still here then?

 

Dennis

[travis1]

Many good photographers here. Many nice people here willing to help. Many people who don't shoot but talk about gears. It's really ok you know guys.

 

Brad---good photog, knows his stuff.

Eric--charismatic, good-looking, nice gf(s), good photogs

Al---good photog, knowsa his stuff, don't like digital, sometimes mis-interpreted stuffs from digital friends, likes film, oh well let that guy be.

Doris----knowledgeable, apparently too much knowledge...i look out for his postings, sometimes very funny, like Jay....really wish to see some of his work(not a challenge, but curious).

 

I don't know sometimes wtf are you guys jabbing each others so much. If only I had that much knowledge to impart as some of u guys, I'd be very fortunate.

 

Al, well, he's just a film guy. Face it. Whenever he talks about digital, take it with a pinch of salt. I correspond with him and I find him very likable. Sort of like a father-figure. Isn't that's what's about? Making friends and sharing stories.

 

At the end of the day, when we all pass, it's not how good a photog or what gears you got that we remember, but some of this jokes/stories/experiences we gathered via this big family.

 

 

Help each other out, be open minded, learn from people things u don't know, be humble, make friends. Stay cool.

 

If you see a fondler, let him be. If u see a shooter, check out his works. Only Mike Tyson do jabs.

 

We are cool people.

 

;>

[Brad_]

Dennis, good to see you back - I missed not hooking up with you in NO. I brought up the

scan issue because on my calibrated monitors an otherwise good photo looked really bad.

If that happened to me, I would want to know about it pronto.

 

Is it really necessary to bring old stuff up just to stir up the current pot? I recall this one,

from you, that I found pretty amazing as well:

 

Subject: Does a talent for insulting others come with every Leica?

 

"... What really irritates me, though, are: 1. The people who post amateurish photos and,

expressly or tacitly, invite comment; and then are offended when others trash their pics;

2. The people who post photos and also find a need to express their philosophies and to

speak authoritatively about every aspect of photography as though they are the second

coming of HCB. Quite frankly, some of these folks must be delusional. ..."

 

Shameful...

[travis1]

what really irritates me is my baby wanting mum's milk every 20 mins! nothing else matters at this moment of my life.<div></div>

[jasper1]

Quite frankly, some of these folks must be delusional. ..."

 

Shameful...

 

You should all listen to the master. The master is always right.

 

Thank you blessed merciful master.

[dennis_couvillion]

Brad, I am flattered that you find me so interesting that you have at your immediate disposal every post I have ever made here. If you would be so kind as to provide me with the date and thread in which these comments were made it would be appreciated so that I can see the context in which the comments were made.

 

It is a fact that there are different levels of experience and talent on display here... and some work may be, quite frankly, amateurish. Others' work may be quite good. While it is true that at one time I found it troublesome that there were people who were somewhat delusional about their talent level and who became upset when others offered critiques of their work. That was a while back as I recall. I am happy to say that my views have evolved pretty much and that I believe everyone should be able to post his/her pics without fear of disrespectful attack. I have even expressed those views consistently on this forum.

 

But my question was essentailly this: if this place is so god-awful bad and the photography so "dreadful" (your adjective) that you don't even want to post your work among them, then why are you still here? The impression you give is that you simply come here to attack, antagonize and cause trouble.

 

BTW, did you tell Al that his photograph was "an otherwise good photo"? I don't think so...

 

Best regards,

 

Dennis

[jtdnyc]

Eric, sometimes you have to look at how a dispute began before deciding who's right and who's wrong.

 

Four or five people regularly pile on Al every time he appears on Photo.net, yet you accuse me of becoming meaner and braver behind a keyboard when I come out of the woodwork to defend him.

 

Al makes it no secret that he has gotten much of his equipment for a song at estate sales, and many of the posts here are complaints about the price of new Leica equipment, yet you try to position Leica users as some sort of elitist group.

 

The name of the forum is Leica Photography, yet you seem to feel that there is something wrong with participants being more enthusiastic about Leica equipment than other brands or other ways of making pictures.

 

I really don't understand where you're coming from. I'm not trying to be cute here. If you're trying to take the high ground, why aren't you defending Al against attacks, instead of attacking those who defend him? Why deny Leica enthusiasts the simple pleasure of "talking shop"? If you really think that the photographers here are "below average," why not make some helpful suggestions?

 

And please, before you answer -- if you choose to answer -- think about how it all started, and not about just trying to get the next shot in.

[dennis_couvillion]

Brad, I haven't looked up the comments you cited but since making the above post I now recall that my comments you cited were actually intended for one person in particular. It was Alfie Wang, and I am sorry to bring up his name and cause him embarrassmenr. Later, after Alfie had been long gone, I recanted my comments and specifically praised Alfie for his enthusiasm for photography. Alfie was well intentioned and was not mean-spirited. Many people considered Alfie a royal PIA... but in hindsight I'd take Alfie, bad photographs and all, any day over some of the arrogant people here today who believe they are photographically superior to everyone else.

 

Best regards,

 

Dennis

[paul t]

" I gravitated over there to jump start an alternative to avoid tossers like you... I

haven't witnessed any flames or insults" <p>

So you just come to this forum to indulge in the kind of insults that never

happen 'over there'? How kind! <p>

Doris, thanks for posting that link. Intriguing. A bit like my dreams (I was

brought up a Roman Catholic, obviously). Please post more. I always enjoyed

Rene's posts, too - perhaps the problem, as with so many things, is that when

people like it/are interested, they often don't comment. They're always more

vocal about the things they dislike.