manuel_garcia5 Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 After talking about getting a film scanner for months now the wife told me to just go ahead and order one. Now before she changes her mind I need a little help. I've been talking about the Minolta Scan Elite 5400 and know about its $600 price tag so I'll use that as my limit. I'll only be scanning 35mm color print film, and will try slide film in the future but for now I'll stick to 35mm color print film. I would like to scan each negative large enough to make up to 8x10 prints should I want or need to. I would just love to save money and purchased the Minolta Scan Dual IV and deal with the scratches and dust my self but I've never done that before and from what I hear it can take time. Owners of the Scan Dual IV how do you deal with them? I could just bite the bullet and purchase the Minolta Scan Elite 5400. But that's a lot of money and I've read about focusing problems (not always dead on). I would hate to spend that much money and not be happy with the scan. If I'm going to spend that much money I expect to just load the negatives in and come back 20 minutes later with perfect results. Anything else I should be looking at? What about a used Nikon coolscan IV, the DMAX is lower when compared to both Minolta's but what real world difference dose that make? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack paradise Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 " If I'm going to spend that much money I expect to just load the negatives in and come back 20 minutes later with perfect results." I dont know what you expect out of a scanned image, but usually that's where the work in Photoshop starts: Image cropping, adjusting image size, Adjusting tonality, Adjusting colors, dealing with noise, sharpening, downsizing/upsizing for printing, archiving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
majid Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 Look at the Nikon Coolscan IV and V. They have better shadow detail, but a harsher light source and shallow DOF. Digital ICE is a major productivity gain. Don't dismiss it unless you arre scanning mostly non-chromogenic black & white or Kodachrome. The 4.8D Max quoted for the Minolta is pure marketing BS, pure and simple: it's just the theoretical maximum DMax you can get from a 16-bit scanner interface, that doesn't mean it can actually be reached, just as putting a speedometer calibrated all the way to 300mph on a Ford Pinto won't make it reach that speed (unless it falls off a cliff, of course). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manuel_garcia5 Posted January 3, 2005 Author Share Posted January 3, 2005 Jack, I mean with reguards to dust and scratches. I know about the other work I need to in Photoshop. Should I go for a used Coolscan IV or 4000 then if the DMAX really dose not mean much? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaiyen Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 Even with regards to only dust and scratches, it depends. If you have a negative that is just a ton of scratches, obviously you can't just walk away and come back with a perfect scan. You can crank the ICE up but then you get a soft scan. Which you will then need to significantly correct in PS anyway. I have a coolscan IV. Works fine for me, and I get to 8x10 without much trouble. allan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ethervizion Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 Manuel, If you are only interested in going up to 8"x10", I would recommend saving some money by going for a 2700dpi model but still try and get something with ICE (or equivalent). Sorry, I don't know what the different offerings are in terms of specific models, but in your situation I would say "yes" to ICE and "no" to 5400/4000dpi to get you the best value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ethervizion Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 I should add that I have the Minolta 5400 and, after scanning 100's (if not 1000's) of slides and negatives, I've only had a focussing problem once. But if I had to make a compromise and choose a different scanner, ICE would be the LAST thing I would give up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_amiet2 Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 Whatever scanner you buy, ICE, or its equivalent, is available in VueScan (from www.hamrick.com) which works on all scanners and platforms. IMHO, excellent value (very cheap) and does everything Nikon Ice does for my scanner. I have since unistalled NikonScan from my computer because I am so impressed with VueScan. Its free to try on unlimited time. The point? Don't buy a scanner just because it has ICE. The equivalent, or better can be had separately. Good luck with your choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ethervizion Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 I'm sorry, but there's no such thing as software-only ICE. Real ICE requires hardware that scans an infrared channel to make a map of dust, scratches, etc., and then uses software to intelligently remove it (i.e., it is a hardware+software solution). Software-only dust and scratch removal (which is NOT ICE) can only guess what are dust and scratches rather than image detail. The ability of VueScan to record the infrared channel and apply the dust and scratch removal at a later date should not be confused with a software-only solution. This still requires a scanner that supports ICE to actually record the infrared channel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manuel_garcia5 Posted January 4, 2005 Author Share Posted January 4, 2005 Karl, I completely agree that the 5400 will probably be overkill for what I want to do. However I've looked at the 2700dpi+ scanners like the Nikon Coolscan used for $300+ or the Scan Elite II new for $399. If I were to go for the Nikon I would only save $200 and hope it wasn't used to death. And the Scan Elite II is only $150 less than a new 5400 so that's a wash. John, I would buy the Minolta Scan Dual IV in a heart beat if I knew I wouldn't be spending alot of time fixing each scan in photoshop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manuel_garcia5 Posted January 4, 2005 Author Share Posted January 4, 2005 Allan, So ICE does make images soft? What about ICE 4, does that soften images too? Dumb question but if that's the case then why use ICE? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Currie Posted January 4, 2005 Share Posted January 4, 2005 "So ICE does make images soft?" I haven't found that it does, using normal setting of ICE on a Coolscan IV. I have tried scanning the same slide with and without ice and zooming in past the point of visible pixellation, and not found a difference. I haven't experimented with higher settings, but the normal is very effective. I wouldn't want to be without it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carl photography Posted January 4, 2005 Share Posted January 4, 2005 My scanner has ICE. I would either buy one with ICE, or not buy a scanner and just let the labs handle the scanning (that saves a LOT of time, if your volume is high enough to consider buying a scanner!). "Brandon's Dad" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soboyle www.oboylephoto.co Posted January 4, 2005 Share Posted January 4, 2005 Prepare yourself for lost weekends scanning, its fun for about a week, then it looses its charm, then its a bloody thankless nightmare. Do yourself a favor, bring your negs to a scanning service and spend the $600 on a nice little digital camera. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaiyen Posted January 4, 2005 Share Posted January 4, 2005 Manuel, sorry I didn't see your question to me in this thread for a while... ICE at _very_ high levels will soften the image. At "normal" levels you're fine. I use Vuescan as my scanning software, and I leave it at the "light" setting always. My point was that your comment about being able to walk away and come back to a perfect scan won't apply to really scratched negatives. If it's heavily scratched, then you'll need to crank ICE, and you'll lose some sharpness. It was more a qualification than anything else. Having gotten my CS IV and using it for over a year, I would never considering getting a scanner without ICE. If I had to spend as much time cleaning all my color stuff as I do with my traditional B&W, I'd be stranglign myself by now. allan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manuel_garcia5 Posted January 5, 2005 Author Share Posted January 5, 2005 I want to thank all of you who took the time to reply. After going back and fourth between the 5400 & the Scan Dual IV I was on the phone ready to place the order for the 5400 (had my Credit Card in hand) but just could not justify the cost. I ended up purchasing a used Nikon Coolscan IV from KEH figuring that it would be just a shade behind what the Scan Dual IV can do with the exception of ICE. I really stopped to think how I would use a film scanner. The only thing I could think of was archiving my entire 35mm print library (99% family and 1% attempted pro photos). If I wanted something enlarged I would just have it made from the original negative and let the photo lab deal with dust and scratches. Being that the Nikon Coolscan IV is used how should I test it to make sure it?s functioning properly? I have a 14 day return policy (to get my money back) and a 60 day operational warranty. And if some reason I don't like the scans from the Coolscan IV then I'll really bite the bullet and order my 5400. But I think it will do just fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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