sandy_sorlien Posted October 25, 2004 Share Posted October 25, 2004 Hello Fellow Democrats (or whatever) I am sending my students out shooting on Election Day. Has anyone tried photographing at polling places? I found a statute that says you can't do it within 100 feet "with intent to intimidate," but I wonder whether you can get closer with other intent, e.g. "artistic" intent. If not voters, what about the machines, or buildings, or general scene? Need answers/opinions/anecdotes ASAPThanksSandy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_schneider Posted October 25, 2004 Share Posted October 25, 2004 I question what your intent is. There isn't anything particularly artistically interesting about a polling place, a line of people or anything else that you would see at a polling place. What is your real intent? The fact that you address your post to fellow Democrats would suggest a purpose beyond photojournalism or art. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce watson Posted October 25, 2004 Share Posted October 25, 2004 And making a statement about that, might well be worthwhile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelging Posted October 25, 2004 Share Posted October 25, 2004 I have been covering elections for 30 yrs. In years past we used to be able to photograph people voting if they gave permission. About 5 yrs ago we were not allowed to shoot photos with in the 100 ft limit.Now we just take photos of people walking in to the voting places, and photgraph workers counting chads after the election.I never understood how taking a photo of someone voting in a private booth was intimidating someone .I all those years, I never had someone say, they did not want their photo taken. I am sure It depends on local election law.I would check with the elections commision in your county . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff_lu Posted October 25, 2004 Share Posted October 25, 2004 i will be doing it discreetly and if the cops come after me i'll just apologise and shoot somewhere else...too much material on one uncommon day to make a big fuss...and i do expect this to happen because as you've noted, this is a paranoid country id suggest to your students that they not be too feisty if a situation arises...and to vote! "Jeffrey Lu" is a candidate, they can write him in...or whoever else they please ;) there indeed can be art in that line of people if done artistically, as with everything Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnanian Posted October 25, 2004 Share Posted October 25, 2004 hey sandy ... you might contact your board of canvassers to see what the regulations are ... it might be one of those "different from state to state" kind of things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert_hurd Posted October 25, 2004 Share Posted October 25, 2004 Hi, Sandy, There may be a concern for the safety of your students. I am learning that because of previous actions to roadblock, harass, and stop-and-demand-ID voters in the 2000 election, then there seems to be reciprocal preparations to photograph/ video tape such crimes in this 2004 election. As you can imagine, a person who would lower themselves to deprive voters of their rights (whether out of political conviction or for payment) would also be likely to react aggressively to anyone trying to capture visual evidence of such crimes. Robt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff_lu Posted October 25, 2004 Share Posted October 25, 2004 good point robert...gives me more incentive to photograph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandy_sorlien Posted October 25, 2004 Author Share Posted October 25, 2004 Yes, Robert, those would be important pictures. But thanks for the warning. I'm gonna print out this whole thread to show the students. Keep the posts coming. We can also use ideas on what other stuff to shoot that day. Sandy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_h.1 Posted October 25, 2004 Share Posted October 25, 2004 You worry about the fate of your students shooting pictures at election sites so you seek legal advice from a photographic website. Great. Next time I need plumbing advice I'll ask a lifegaurd since they know so much about water. Please do your students a favor and not dispense legal advice to them. Consult someone who is qualified to answer the question. A lawyer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pensacolaphoto Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 I got a big surprise last week ... I have been asking my students to conduct surveys on other students for many years, but it seems that I may have to first obtain permission from the Institutional Research Board to hold such simple class projects! Compare this with your photography project. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_hoogendyk Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 Sandy, How about pictures of election signs, or rally aftermath (balloons, streamers, benches, etc.)? The election signs could be just masses of them staked at a corner, or funny groupings of them: three signs - red, white and blue; three strange candidate names - like Black, White and Brown; or a liberal Republican next to a conservative Democrat :-) ; or four signs from four parties; or six signs - all of increasing size, in a row, with a perspective angle. There could be lots of angles: documentary, humorous, artsy, sign pollution, etc., etc., etc. If they do it, it would be fun for you to share the results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
User_503771 Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 I would suppose that you have already "grooved in" your students on the facts regarding photographing people -- that one should get a model release if the person will be recognizable. Although in a public domain situation like election day this might not be necessary.... In any event, if I were in your shoes, I would (as other posters have suggested): a) check with local election officials to make sure you're not stepping on any toes, and also b) instruct students to (on pain of certain mayhem) be VERY polite when photographing in the field, especially to cops who will be under enough of a load that day; c) carry student ID with them, and also possibly carry a write-up of the day's assignment, to prove their bona fides to anyone who asks; and possibly d) offer prints of photos at no charge to individuals they might be photographing, as a goodwill gesture, if such might be available. People love to see photos of themselves. One good exercise that could possibly come of this: Let's say a student gets "run out of town" from a certain location, is told s/he cannot photograph there. Have the student write up an account of what happened (after leaving politely and peacefully), and then check out whether the action taken against the student was legal. This could be a good exercise in finding out in detail what one's rights are, and what might be done about this sort of thing -- but safely, without getting one's a** arrested! Or a student might be able to recount being able to politely discuss his/her way into a polling place. Recount whether or not s/he was allowed to use flash, or if movements and communications were restricted. Or what measures one took to ensure that no voter's rights were in any way abridged by the presence of the photographer, and/or what the photographer did to ensure s/he did not distract voters. Other than that, look out for unforeseen creative opportunities that the day might present! And of course, other than that -- composition, composition, composition -- AND, when in doubt, overexpose! (Assuming you're working in black and white) Sounds like a good photo-journalism type of exercise. Good luck and have fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtdnyc Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 Sandy, since you are going to show this thread to your students, you may want them to consider the following points: 1. over the last several decades, voter fraud has been a much more widespread problem than voter intimidation 2. many acts that have been called intimidation are in fact good-faith efforts to prevent voter fraud. There were times and places in our history when some groups of voters were threatened with physical violence or other repercussions if they showed up at the polls. Now that's intimidation. On the other hand, challenging a potential voter to prove his identity and his eligibility to vote, based on such factors as residency and registration, is not intimidation. In fact, it's a legitimate part of the electoral process and helps to maintain the integrity of our democracy. Would we really want ineligible voters to vote, or to have eligible voters vote more than once? From a photographic point of view, real intimidation can be very graphic and anyone who seeks to photograph it might be taking a personal risk. So-called intimidation -- that is, measures designed to keep fraudulent voters away from the polls -- might make interesting shots as well, though here it's the caption that might tell the true story. Unfortunately, taking a photograph that might reveal voter fraud is next to impossible...unless you're lucky enough to shoot the same person standing in line twice! Good luck to your students. As their teacher, please help them see that this issue, like most issues, has two sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike dixon Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 Also, considering you'll be showing this to students, I can't let this pass without comment:<P> <i>I would suppose that you have already "grooved in" your students on the facts regarding photographing people -- that one should get a model release if the person will be recognizable. Although in a public domain situation like election day this might not be necessary....</i><P> First, it's a public situation, not "public domain situation." Public domain is an issue of copyright protection; it's not a privacy issue.<P> Whether a person is recognizable in a photo is only one factor in the need for a model release. For non-commercial uses, a model release isn't required even if individuals are recognizable. I wouldn't want students to get the impression they need a model release from every person they photograph.<P> There's quite a bit of information about the need for releases in the Street & Documentary and the People Photography Forums, as well as on the rest of the web. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellis_vener_photography Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 I'd tell your students to look at all aspects and activity of activity around the polls: signs, people urging people to vote for this or that candidate or issue, other people covering the polls, protestors, intimidators, the people working inside the polling place (if you get permissionany law enforcement as well as voters.<P> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sm. alec Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 Sounds like a good "documentary" type of assignment w/ reasonable precautions taken, as stated above by numerous others. So far as the politics go, I think it boils down to whom you believe is lying the least. C'mon folks, they are politicians after all... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott squire nonfiction Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 WT: Sometimes photographers like to talk about the things they do with their cameras, not just about groundglass and lensboards. I've been wondering about exactly this topic, as I'm planning to do some documentation with the 4x5 around the elections. I will say that there's a bit of needless politicking going on in the thread, the kind that's all but guaranteed to wreck a perfectly good (and relevant) discussion about the logistics of photography. That said, I'll offer this, which I hope won't tweak anybody much: I never photographed it, but a few years ago in Seattle, there was a candidate whose first run of lawn signs read "Rich White, Republican" Shortly he became known publicly as Rick. [okay, it's possibly apocryphal; perhaps I just wanted him to have been Rich early on cause it'd be funny. I forget. But I wish I'd o tooken pitchers.] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay kominek Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 (Seems like this doesn't have anything to do with large format, and would've fit better in People or General. Anyways.) <p> In Colorado there are some rules about what you can do within 100 feet of a polling place, but I think it is mostly about signs, protests and demostrations, etc. Even if it turns out that you're not allowed to take pictures within that 100 foot radius, I'm sure that with a bit of effort you can find a polling place that has all sorts of interesting things going on <b>outside</b> the protected area. <p> Political intimidation runs every which direction (there are more than two!), and people standing around with cameras outside polling places can, I believe, keep it to a minimum and serve to document it if it happens. <p> For anyone planning on hanging around polling places on Election Day, I strongly suggest you make sure you're in <a href="http://www.teddytactical.com/SharpenBladeArticle/ 4_States%20of%20Awareness.htm">condition yellow</a>. (Though you should be in yellow all the time, for safety and photographic reasons.) The political parties have managed to work themselves absolutely rabid this year, and I won't be a bit surprised to hear reports of violence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandy_sorlien Posted October 26, 2004 Author Share Posted October 26, 2004 Hi Mike and all, Well, I did egg everyone on with my "Fellow Democrats" salutation. The reason I posted this on LF is because youse are smarter than other photographers (ha), and I have been reading the LF forum for years and know who speaks the truth... (For the red staters, "youse" is Philadelphian for the second person plural.) Thanks again! Sandy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim_malone Posted October 30, 2004 Share Posted October 30, 2004 Sandy: this is a bit late, but I just got a notice in the mail today, put out by the NAACP and the Democratic Party warning people about those who would take their picture at or near the polling place. If this is widespreaad, you may be sending your students into a dangerous situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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