New Canon digital SLR - the 20D is official

[eos 10 fan]

The link is not working for me. <p>

 

Hi res (458k-1003k) pics of 20D & 10-22/EF-S here:<br>

<a href="http://www.usa.canon.com/templatedata/pressrelease/images/hiRes/?M=D">http://www.usa.canon.com/templatedata/pressrelease/images/hiRes/?M=D</a> <p>--

[Greg M]

Because, Joseph, it makes too much sense! Remember, photographers don't makes these things. And I'm not too sure Canon listens to the ones that buy their products.

 

If there was even a hint that (1.3 sensor) was going to be the case I would have held off on the 10D I bought. None of the new specs add up to enough to be a difference maker. It's gotten to the point it may be better to wait every two generations or so to think about upgrading.

[brambor]

Well... I won't be upgrading until a full frame comes in at a reasonable price. I still shoot D30 and get by just fine.

[phule]

Dan,

 

Excellent link! I notice that they've also got a bunch of new consumer/prosumer cameras there:

S70, A400, A95, and the G6

[Greg M]

Yes, and we'll see if Canon has REALLY done anything about the G series shortcomings.

 

The G6 will be a waste if they don't correct any of the current shortcomings:

 

1. Slow AF/AE setting

 

2. This camera has to allow the use of the infra-red beam of the separate flash units or AF performance is still going to be horrid.

 

3. Will the built-in flash still cut off at the corner?

 

I have my doubts #1 will ever be faster than it is, but if #2 and #3 are still a problem, shame on Canon.

[eoghan]

I'm not getting excited about those lenses until someone does some testing. Is the 17-85 just going to be another 18-55?

-e

[Greg M]

Probably, except you can expect the IS feature to increase the price by probably $200.

[yakim_peled1]

<p> Don't know what about you but I'm disappointed. While I'm sure these will be a huge success, there are no new primes, no new L lenses, no new constant aperture zooms, no 24-85/4 USM L, no 1.3X, no AS.......</p>

 

<p>Happy shooting, <br>

Yakim.</p>

[michael focus97.com lee]

*If* this isn't a hoax, the first thing I notice on the back view of the 20D is that there two buttons missing. The up/down left/right button is gone, and the button just to the left of the AE/FE lock button is gone. I use that button all the time to use my center AF point. If it's really a new model, why the removed functionality?

[Greg M]

If that little nub is a joy stick you'll not need the up/down button.

[eos 10 fan]

<i>Is the 17-85 just going to be another 18-55?</i><p>

 

I would expect the performance to be about the same as the 28-135/IS. <br>The 1.6x crop makes it about a 27-136mm full frame field of view. <br>

I am sure we will be seeing some user comparos in the months ahead. <p>

 

Too bad it is an EF-S mount - I would have bought one for my 10<b>s</b> and I am sure there are many D30, D60 & 10D owners who would have wanted the 17-85/EF-S lens too. <p>

 

--

[panos_voudouris]

"Don't know what about you but I'm disappointed. While I'm sure these will be a huge success, there are no new primes, no new L lenses, no new constant aperture zooms, no 24-85/4 USM L, no 1.3X, no AS......."

 

Well, I don't think there will be any new primes for time to come, with the exception of telephoto lenses, given that most people now use zooms. A 24-85/4 would be purely aimed at film users so that is not a reasonable choice for Canon, given that the 300/10D users already have the 17-40 and that 1Ds users can have the 2.8 zoom.

 

But in any case, I think it is time for me to get a digital camera this Christmas and the 20D seems to fit the bill. The viewfinder might be small and the 1.6x crop not exactly great, but the 20D for most things combined with my 30E for wide-angle and silver B&W will cover all my needs.

[gary_ferguson1]

"Don't know what about you but I'm disappointed. While I'm sure these will be a huge success, there are no new primes, no new L lenses, no new constant aperture zooms, no 24-85/4 USM L, no 1.3X, no AS......."

 

Photokina hasn't even begun let alone finished. There's plenty of time for more news, especially as there's rumoured to be a 300D replacement at a lower price and who knows, maybe even a new 1Ds. Perhaps Canon wants to hold back some lens announcements as well to grab a few extra headlines in the photo press.

[mark u]

I'd be astonished if there isn't a 50mm distance reporting fastish prime compatible with E-TTL II announced no later than Photokina.

[tom_burke3]

Well, the link isn't working for me, so I'm undecided whether it's a hoax or a mistaken post

that's been pulled.

 

But if it's a mistaken early release then this tells us that the 1.6 CF is going to be around

for a very long time. If the semi-pro range has 1.6 CF then the consumer line (300D/

DRebel) will also keep it. I would therefore anticipate 2 to 3 years before Canon move away

from this. Longer if there are more 1.6 CF dedicated lenses.

 

I'm beginning to think I'll stick with film....

[nelson cotrim]

I did see the page a few hours ago, and it's not there anymore. There's also no press release and it was the only page in that folder that did not have a link to the brochure, so no specs, just photos. DPreview specs are probably just guestimates, but I belive the camera is real. It 's probably the same thing that happend with the 1Ds, someone posted the page on the internet, and then pulled it off some time later.

[jon_austin]

Assuming these specs are accurate (the photos on Canon's site are real enough, unless it's an elaborate practical joke!):

 

I'm with Jim Larson (again); this is a yawner for current 10D owners. For that I'll be relieved, as this new body won't be tugging at my wallet.

 

I wonder if the 20D isn't actually intended as a *downgrade* from the 10D, to bridge the gap between the 10D and the 300D (the product nomenclature suggests as much). The EF-S mount will support a newly expanded range of lackluster, consumer grade EF-S lenses, and the higher MP on the same 1.6x sensor is bound to produce higher noise and worse (or no better) dynamic range.

 

I think Canon *can* produce a 10D price-range body with a larger sensor, better dynamic range, more information in the viewfinder, etc., they simply choose to not do so, as long as they can sell all the 1D-II's they want at the current $4K+ price.

 

So maybe the 10D will live on as a current product after the 20D is released. But if I were in the market for the 10D, I'd buy one quick, just in case it is discontinued with the launch of the 20D. I'd be dissapointed if the 20D were the best Canon dSLR I could buy below the 1D-II!

[godefroy]

On the hoax subject:

 

Both Internet domains canon.com (and it's derivatives : www.canon.com, usa.canon.com...) and canonusa.com are registered by Canon: the first one by Canon HQ in Japan and the second one by Canon USA. That only proves that the pages we saw earlier this day were a on Canon server.

 

Therefore, there are two possibilities: 1) Someone at Canon made a mistake (most probable) or intended to create a hoax (!) ; 2) The server at Canon has been hacked and a page has been added.

 

Happy shootings !

 

Godefroy

[jbq]

(Warning: personal opinions below).

 

Without a doubt an improvement over the 10D. Pretty much superior in every single spec.

 

The resolution difference is actually small (14% linear difference). The smaller pixel size is going to result in more pixel-level noise, especially in the middle ISOs (400,800) that are primarily limited by photon noise (for the same print size I would expect the result to still look superior).

 

My personal summary:

 

20D not better enough than 10D to justify the cost of upgrading. I would rather upgrade my glass, lighting and tripod, get vertical grips for my current bodies, etc... (plus I just spent $400+ on a large format lens).

 

New lenses intriguing, but not backward-proof (don't work on 10D) or future-proof (don't work on 1D or anything with a sensor larger than 1.6x).

 

Still hoping for a $600 35-80/4L (USM, no IS), a $400 65/1.4 (or $300 65/1.8) and a $2000-$2500 3D with the sensor of the 1DII.

[panos_voudouris]

"and the higher MP on the same 1.6x sensor is bound to produce higher noise and worse (or no better) dynamic range."

 

The 1DII has almost 2x the number of pixels of the 1D over the same area without any loss of quality (from what I am reading).

[jon_austin]

I'd also like to see an updated 50mm prime, and -- in general -- for Canon to upgrade its line of non-L primes to include more E-TTL II-compliant, FTM ring USM models.

 

I disagree with Panos Voudouris that the only market for a 24-85mm f/4L lens (make mine a 28-80, please!) is film users: plenty of 10D users have bought the 24-70 f/2.8L, and there are plenty more of us who'd like an f/4L version without the f/2.8L's size, price, weight, changing length when zooming, hood issues, etc.

[jbq]

Panos: the 1D was far from being photon-noise-limited, the 10D, 1DII and 1Ds are much closer.

[jon_austin]

"The 1DII has almost 2x the number of pixels of the 1D over the same area without any loss of quality (from what I am reading)."

 

That's true, but I don't know if it's pertinent. At the very least, it's an apples/oranges comparsion, since the 1D-II's sensor is CMOS and the 1D's was CCD. I don't know what the pixel size (or spacing) was on the 1D's CCD sensor.

 

Doing the math on the current CMOS sensors, however, the 1D-II's pixels are ~ 8 microns in size, compared to ~ 7 microns for the 10D. If the 20D indeed sports an 8.2MP, 1.6x sensor, that works out to a *maximum* pixel size of ~ 6.4 microns.

 

Since relative pixel size is the primary factor in determining noise and dynamic range (all other factors being equal), its reasonable to assume that there'll be no improvement in noise/dynamic range performance. If Canon has refined its sensor technology (and that's a reasonable assumption), then an 8.2MP, 1.6x sensor with comparable performance to the 10D's is *possible*, but it's difficult to decrease pixel size *and* improve S/N performance simultaneously. After all, the sensors are where "all the money is" in these digital bodies.

 

Given that dynamic range is one of the greatest shortcomings of digital photography, a lot of photographers would rather see improvements in this area, instead of in pixel counts.

[panos_voudouris]

Hmmm...interesting. Reading the specs (or guesses) it seems that the 20D uses the DIGIC II sensor that the 1DII uses. So I would think that this would be improving matters. But we'll have to wait and see. In any case, either a 20D or a cheaper 10D will be in my hands this Christmas! :-)

[panos_voudouris]

...unless of course the 8mp number is incorrect and the sensor is still 6mp. Or it is a 1.3x crop (yeah right...).