First time development - Problem

[stefanovandelli]

Hi all, I am new to this and today I developed my first roll of HP5+

in Ilfosol S, 1+9 for 7min as from instructions.

First of all I was quite excited to get some images at all but then

looking at the scans that's when the questions started.

First of all the grain is quite pronounced. This is my first HP5 and

it took me a bit by surprise. Is this normal compared so, say, Delta

100 or even 400?

 

Along the leght of the film there are some marks that I cannot

explain. These are quite nasty and I should really find out the

reason for their presence. Please look at the sample below. Any clue

of what could be causing this? Could I have caused it by squeegeing

the film with my bare fingers a few times?(BTW, the negative seems

clean and therefore we can exclude the possibility of dust)

 

Any help or suggestion would be very much appreciated.

 

Cheers,

[stefanovandelli]

Full Image<div></div>

[stefanovandelli]

100% Crop for grain<div></div>

[stefanovandelli]

And finally, here's the problem I am talking about.<div></div>

[steve_unsworth1]

The problem with the last image does look like dust to me.

 

Personally I don't squeegee at all, certainly I wouldn't recommend doing it _several_ times.

[tom_smith15]

Stefano -

 

Is it possible that the guy in the photograph just has a lot of dandruff?

 

If not, maybe your scanner has a lot of dust on its scanning base unit or the laser bit. Maybe if you try a blower brush on the negative and scanner, and try to enlarge the same section to see if the dandruff is in the same area. If it is, tell the guy to try a different shampoo? :)

 

Btw - HP5+ is very grainy. That's why people like it...or at least that's what I thought. Delta 400 is miles cleaner but the tonal range is a bit antiseptic compared to what you've got out of HP5+.

[bob_mcbob]

Many of my negatives that seem otherwise clean to the naked eye scan with horrendous amounts of dust that looks exactly like the examples you posted. I would examine your negatives in more detail, perhaps under a loupe. A bulb blower helps get rid of some of it, but most of my black and white scans involve some dust spotting in Photoshop.

[StuartMoxham]

Change developer Ilfosol S is grainy. Try Something like D76 1:0 (ID11 1:0) or HC110. HP5 is a 400 speed film and will be more grainy than say FP4, Pan F or Delta 100. But I don't regard HP5 as a real grainy film in HC110 or D76 it is really quite good for a 400 film.

[john_shriver]

Always scan B&W film at maximum scanner resolution in the scanner, and then downsample as necessary in photo editor. This is the only way that the anti-aliasing filter in the scanner can work (if it even has one).

 

Also, if you are developing B&W film for scanning, you want to keep the contrast under control, and the maximum density under control. No CCD scanner can give really clean results in really dense areas of a B&W negative. You may well need to develop less than the datasheet times, and expose a bit less too. Additionally, if you are not using stop bath, knock another 30 seconds off the developing time, since water doesn't really stop development very fast.

 

Ilfosol S and HP5+ is an odd combination. You will get lots of mushy grain, not to mention a film speed loss. Ilfosol S is more appropriate to PanF or maybe FP4+. For HP5+, consider Kodak D-76, Kodak HC-110, Ilford ID-11, Ilford Ilfosol DD-X, or Agfa Rodinal. These are all very classic developers, of more general applicability than Ilfosol S. As a beginner, you want to start with one general-purpose developer, get to know it, figure out the developing times that work best with your work flow, etc.

 

D-76 or ID-11 at full strength will give you classic results, with grain that is sharp but not crisp. Using those 1:1 will give you crisper grain, but with a different tonality.

[justa_mon]

Concerning the "Nasty Marks" (white speckles)

This problem is not in the film scanner. This problem is in the washing and cleaning and final stages of the film process. Try using an agent such as Photo-flo as well as increasing your washing time. (i.e., 2-3hrs). Also very important to dry in a dust-free area as possible.

 

Personal note: I have and will wash my film over night if I feel it needs it (my conditions sometimes call for it though)

[stefanovandelli]

Thanks for your help. I checked the neg with a loupe and the problem is definitely not dust. It seems to run across the whole length of the neg. Maybe I just rough it up too much with the squeegeing, which I repeated a few times (don't ask me why).

Reading the advice given previously to other people on this board I think that next time I will wash in distilled water and not squeege at all.

[lex_jenkins]

HP5+ and Ilfosol-S are not a friendly combination if you want fine grain. Been there, done that.

 

However if you happen to *want* fairly pronounced grain that is softer in appearance than is usually obtained with Rodinal, try shooting HP5+ at 800 and using a little extended development with Ilfosol-S. I've gotten some nice informal portraiture using this technique.

 

Otherwise, save the Ilfosol-S for ISO 100 or slower films. It's good with APX 100, TMX and Delta 100. For HP5+ good old fashioned ID-11/D-76 at 1+1 is fine.

[jimvanson]

Some good suggestions have already been given as have some boners.<P>I only want to add a couple of things -- first off is scans are not always a true indication of what you will get with a wet print. For instance, my Agfa APX 400 B&W scans look bad, bad, bad but print well.<P>And the white stuff? I'd guess some kinda deposit either usually caused by a washing problem.<P>Solution? I'd probably wet the negs, refix (which probably won't do anything, but what the hell), then rewash, photo flow and hang to dry.<P>And a word of caution -- if the deposits have embedded themselves into the emulsion then they are probably there to stay.

[frank.schifano]

Are you good and confused yet? Here's the deal and it's dead simple. One of the best possible all around developers for HP5+ is D-76 or it's Ilford twin ID-11. Rodinal is not a very good choice for fast films and the Rodinal/HP5+ combination, especially in 35mm and smaller formats, is one of the worst combinations I've ever tried in 35mm. It works ok for medium and large format films when intended enlargemnts are modest. XTOL or Microphen are also excellent choices, in some ways superior to D-76/ID-11. Washing your negatives shouldn't take more than 20 minutes if you don't use a wash aid. With a wash aid you can cut your wash times down to as little as 5 minutes. Two hours? No way! Finally get yourself a wetting agent be it Kodak's PhotoFlo or any other brand that strikes your fancy. Experiment with the dilution. I find that 1+200 for PhotoFlo is too strong. With my water supply, I can dilute it up to 1+400 and it still does the job of making the water sheet off the film without beading up. Do not squeegee.

[philip_glass]

The white stuff is probably dust. It looks like you parked the negative wet near a stream of air that is dust laden. The best way to check is to rule it out. Try drying the negative in a shower stall after running the hot water a couple of minutes. This will help clear the air of dust. Close the curtains and avoid opening the bathroom door, windows, or operating an overhead fan. It could also be small suspended particles in any of the chemicals. These can be elminated by running the chemistry through coffee filters.

[ronald_moravec1]

The white spots are from one of two places, dirt in the water or air where it was dried. Repair as follows:

 

Do not squeegee with your fingers. See what happens.

 

If problem not solved, wash with distilled water one or two times and use photoflow, no squeege.

 

Next step is do all processing with distilled water.

 

Last step is to install an air filter for the darkroom or drying cabinet if you have one.

 

Implement these one step at a time until the problem goes away.

 

You may add a 3 micron water filter in place of using all distilled water.

 

Now you have used fixer. Sometimes silver precipitates out and sticks to the next film. Either do not reuse it or fold a Bounty towel in quarters and place it in the bottom of a funnel and filter the fix just before use into a clean container.

 

Make sure all containers are clean and are used for the same chemicals all the time.

 

Good luck.

[justa_mon]

Ronald Moravec: Distilled Water | I may try that. At least in the development stage. That is a good suggestion.

 

Justamon

[ronald_moravec1]

It is more important to wash with clean water than develope.

[stefanovandelli]

Controlling the water is going to be easier than controlling the dust in the room. I hope that a final wash in distilled water will solve the problem. Great suggestions from everybody. Thanks all.