Losing frames at end of film

[vesta_bade]

This is my first post so forgive me if I have the wrong category. I

have been developing my own film for a couple of years now, and I

have this recurring problem. The last (and sometimes the first)

three frames are black (over-exposed). The frames are numbered

correctly after deveoping. I have tried loading the film and removing

it in the darkroom thinking that I was letting light hit the roll

somehow. But there they are, three black frames at the end of the

film strip again. This is getting very annoying. Can anyone suggest

what I might be doing wrong. I am using a Yashica-C TLR camera (same

problem with other cameras as well) with B&W 120 film. Thanks, Vesta

[thomas_sullivan]

first....how many frames are getting exposed properly? And please explain EXACTLY how you unload film

[vesta_bade]

The 4th frame on turns out real nice. I wind the film forward as far as it goes in the camera, and then open the camera back and then grasp the film firmly and remove it. I then tape the flap down to keep it rolled until I am ready to develop it. In the darkroom I did as stated, except I did not tape it, I loaded it onto the reel for developing. Thanks for answering.

[stephen hazelton]

Something is whacked somewhere. If you load and unload it in a darkroom, and get black frames at the beginning and end even with different cameras, no idea what would cause that. Maybe serious light leaks in your developing tank? But I think that would look different from what you describe.

 

You're not using 220 film in a 120 camera, maybe?

 

When you take the film out, is it wound completely around the reel? IE, none of it still strung out over the back?

 

On a Holga (with fairly sloppy workings), you can get the film started winding around the end of the reel. You then run out of room before you get to the end of the roll- the roll of fim is just too big. Is this happening? For this to do what you are describing, it would mean you decide it is wound all the way, open the camera, and still have 8" or so of film and paper dangling there. This could also cause light leaks in through the end of the roll, I assume. And, it's pretty obvious when this happens, when you handle the film roll. Anyway, the solution for that problem on a Holga is to get things straightened up nicely when you start winding.

[thomas_sullivan]

ok, sounds like you're unloading the film correctly. Now, to get really basic...you get only 12 pics on 120 film with a 2 1/4 cam like the yashica TLR....so you are saying you only get 9...right? Loading film, I dont own the yashica...i own a mamiya tlr and a rollie...but you load the film onto the take up real, advance it until the arrows on the paperback come to some dot or edge of the back of the lens plate, close the back and advance the film until it stops or you see a #1 in the red window on the back of the cover (depends how the yashica does things.

 

Assuming you do all that correctly......hmmmmm.....and you still get only 9 pics.....I never messed with a yashica, so I couldn't take a wild guess even.

[William Kahn]

Is this something that recently started happening? Where do you buy your film, and have you changed your source? Do you maybe load your own spools with bulk film?

[vesta_bade]

This is Vesta the one with the question. I got to thinking when could the light be hitting the film? I thought maybe, as someone mentioned, that the tank had a crack or something. I searched it over thoroughly and could not find any cracks. This problem has happened with other cameras. It must be in how I am removeing or putting the film in. I used to take pictures when I was a kid with roll film and I don't remember having this problem. I checked the owner's manual for instructions on adding and removing film, and I can't see where I am doing anything wrong. If the lid of the tank was not on tight enough could that cause a light leak? I have noticed that the lid is troublesome to get on straight in the dark, and also sometimes it leaks fluid when I invert it during processing. Maybe I will try a new tank, althoug this one is fairly new. Thanks to all who have trid to anwer. Vesta

[Julio Fernandez]

"The last (and sometimes the first) three frames are black (over-exposed)"

 

If black frames are sometimes first and sometimes last, it is unlikely that the problem is the camera or the loading / unloading in the camera.

 

"The frames are numbered correctly after deve(l)oping."

 

Therefore not much light is hitting that film, or you would get everything black in the negative strip.

 

I am inclined to suspect some problem in the technique when loading the film in the developing tank, or even, in the lighting in your darkroom.

 

How exactly do you load the film? in a bag? darkroom? If a darkroom, what kind of lighting do you have?

 

Is the blackness of the negatives uniform? with well defined borders between blackness and normal exposure? or diffuse?

 

It is always 3 frames exactly?

 

Could you post a low-res scan? like a digital photo taken from a light table?

[vesta_bade]

Thanks Julio. I do use a darkroom. I do have a light source behind and over my head that I turn on after I have the film in the tank. Do you think that light is getting into the tank from that direction? (I thought light did not bend) On the black frames, I can see the image on a light table it's just that the neg is all dark. The darkness fades from the 3rd frame into the 4th; that's as far as it goes. The frame numbers all line up right. Is this maybe a sign of old film? I bought it from B&H Photo. I am just clueless. Vesta

[maesphoto]

Is it happening with the films you bought at the same time?

Or did you try other films from an entirely different source?

[Zootman]

Is your light a fluorescent light? They often continue to emit a small amount of light for a whilae after they are shut off. Try shutting the light off and then waiting a minute or two before you start to load your film.

[stephen hazelton]

I've read that some fluorscents can put out light for up to an hour after turning off. But anyway, that would fog your whole film, not the first part of it.

 

I haven't experimented with leaky tanks. You might try developing a new (unused) roll of film. If it happens there, you know it's in your developing stage, not your loading/unloading in the camera or a camera malfunction.

 

My tank has a gasket around the top. Would it leak light if that gasket wasn't there? Don't know, but it's a possibility. If the tank was missing the center hub part (the piece that the reel goes around), that might cause problems.

[vesta_bade]

I have a track light on the wall behind me with 2 regular bulb lights on it. Can light get into the tank after I load the film and turn the overhead light on? At first I thought I was letting the film unwind when I opened the camera to remove the film, but I can't see how this happens when I load and unload the film in the darkroom in total darknes. This happens with different film brands and different cameras. I will have to try a new tank and see if that makes a difference. Thanks.

[rick_jones5]

If the black (over-exposed) frames have the normal clear film rebate around them after development it would seem the over-exposure must be occurring in the camera. Could your shutter be sticking? You say "same problem with other cameras as well" - that has me stumped. Could exposed rolls from separate cameras have been mixed with the result that the problem rolls are actually all coming from one camera?

[richard_trochlil]

What kind of tank are you using? Paterson. without the black plastic cylinder that goes through the center of the reel?

[captainplanet]

jsut because it is a darkroom, doesnt mean it is pitch dark. safelights arent safe for film. just a thought. maybe tryputing in and removing film in a change bag, just to rule out the camera. dont know what to say past that, sometimes see it with 35mm, but that is just the little bit that sticks out. good luck

[vesta_bade]

Richardson, in answer to your thought on this. My tank is not a Paterson, but it does have a center post. I thought the center post was for mixing the chemicals because it has another part that goes inside it and there is a part at the bottom of the tank that the post turns on that allows for mixing so you don't have to invert the tank. I have not been using it because I thought it was only used for mixing. I am going to develop some fim today with the post in place, and see if that corrects the problem. Sounds very logical to me now. Thanks for your imput.

[vesta_bade]

EUREKA ! ! ! I just developed a roll of film WITH THE POST, and all frames are there. Excuse me on that last response, I meant to say Richard (Trochlil), not Richardson.

Problem solved. All my thanks to all who contributed. I am forever grateful. Vesta

[robatsgh]

Yeah, that center core helps keep your tank light-tight. Without it, the frames innermost on the film reel are being light-struck.

[richard_trochlil]

Occam's Razor says:

 

If the wash machine does not start, check first to see if it is plugged in.