What is a good 127 film camera?

<p>HI, recently, for not much money I purchased a lot of film from a photographer i met, cleaning out his freezer . Among the film was 2 bricks of 50 rolls of 127 black and white film (Kodak pancromatic). I have a few brownies and a star flash that i got over the years at garage sales that use 127 film, but they are simple cameras. I also have a Bilora Bella, but that is not too much better, with 2 shutter speeds (50,100 & B) and 2 F stops (8, 11). Whit all this nice film i was thinking i should try to get a nicer 127 camera so i could utilize the film better. I wish my Diacord TLR camera had the option to use 127 film. I think the only really nice ones that i can get are the, Koma flex, Rolleiflex Baby and the Yashica 44. But all those cameras are always selling for over $150. I cant afford spend that much right now. i was hoping to find something for maby 40 dollars, but i don't know what quality camera are available at that range for me. I might just end up using the Bilora Bella. I'm just not sure how good the lens is on that.<br /> Does anyone have any good quality economical camera suggestions for me?</p>

<p>Yashica 44 or a Baby Gray Rolli. There are lot's of great folders. that can be had for very little. One of my Goldi cameras had a bad shutter and I got it for only a few dollars. I replaced the shutter and lens from an Argus and now it takes color pictures better than the others with the Schneider lenses.</p>

<p>lol Clif, thanks, i guess you wrote the 1st sentence after reading only the title, or missed the part where i said</p>

<blockquote>

<p>" I think the only really nice ones that i can get are the, Koma flex, Rolleiflex Baby and the Yashica 44. But all those cameras are always selling for over $150. I cant afford spend that much right now."</p>

</blockquote>

<p> I am starting to realize some of my posts can be long winded. People are always missing things in what i write. I am sorry that i write so much i should try to be more to the point, but thank you very much for the response. So i already know those cameras. I also think they are great cameras from the information i have found on them.They have the adjustable features that i want as well as the 4x4 format.<br>

All the folders i have seen are in the half frame, or 3x4 format. Which is pretty much like using one of my 828 film cameras. I would rather the 4x4 format. DO you know any specific names for folders that have the 4x4 format.<br>

I don't want to but I may end up building my own 4cmX4cm camera and canalizing an old Baby Brownie for the body and advance. I was thinking of removing the shutter and drilling out the lens front and using this lens i found for sale for 45 dollars <img src="http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k95/napolitan_2000/camera%20stuff/Bk68SpgB2kKGrHqIH-DgEs96Zc67BLZgVkG.jpg" alt="" /><br>

Its a little long but its got a front focusing element for easy focusing, and i can always mask off the Brownies view finder. I wonder what the focal length is on the brownie. </p>

<p>I also have a lens like this<br>

<img src="http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k95/napolitan_2000/camera%20stuff/P1010154-1.jpg" alt="" /><br>

its a better focal length but it needs to be in a bellows to focus. So it would be too difficult to work.</p>

<p>But first i am going to still look for a decent camera to use.<br>

And i want to thank you for your suggestions Cliff. I am going to keep combing the folders on the auction site.</p>

<p>The chances of finding a classic 127- format camera for less that $150 are pretty slim. Other than the Rollei, Yashica and Kowa there wasn't much around in the way of quality cameras in this format. I've had two Kowas, both of which were inoperable due to uninformed owners operating the mechanism without film, a design flaw of staggering proportions.</p>

<p>The Foth Derby is one of the best 127 cameras, and it does crop up at reasonable prices from time to time, but one of the most sought-after (particularly by me) is the Ensign Multex II, a brilliant little rangefinder with shutter speeds up to 1/1000th. But we're not talking small dollars, here...</p>

<p>A good website for 127 stuff: http://www.onetwoseven.org.uk</p>

<p>Hope this helps.</p>

 

<p>Thank you. I am starting to think it might be easier and cheaper to convert one of the 620 Tourist folders i have to use 127 film and spools. But for now I should try to run a roll through my Bilora Bella and see how the images turn out.<br>

<img src="http://www.thecamerasite.net/07_Viewfinder_Cameras/Images/Bilora-Bella-44a.jpg" alt="" /><br>

This is not my picture but its the exact camera i got.</p>

<p>I have a Ricoh Super 44, and that is a very nice camera. Sharp lens and easy to operate.</p>

<p>Check this out. I've got two of them if you'd like one.</p>

<p><a href="http://westfordcomp.com/classics/bellhowell/index.htm">CLICK</a></p>

<p>I don't think I paid $150 for any of my 127 cameras. IIRC, I paid something like 50 GBP for my Yashica 44LM. Just got to be patient on the auction site. There isn't really a shortage of these cameras.</p>

<p>In 4x6.5, you could get an Agfa Billy 0 (zero - I <em>think </em>that's a model number retrofitted because it was just called Billy, then they made a model called Billy 1). It has a Compur shutter and every example I've seen has an uncoated f/3.9 Solinar lens. There is a bit of unjustified hype around about the Solinar; it's a tessar formula lens, and perfectly ok. In the US, I expect the camera has an Ansco name instead. In that format, I also have a KonishiRoku Pearlette and an Ernemann Bob 1. These are a bit older, and likely to be in worse condition, especially the Pearlette, which is a rather fragile design, like the older, strut-folding Vest Pocket Kodaks.</p>

<p>I have a couple of Certo Dolly cameras in vest-pocket size. Mine have the film mask for 4x6 cm, but they have the red windows for 4x3 too, and I have altered the mask temporarily with black craft paper.</p>

<p>I like the 4x3 cm format myself - not such a long rectangle, and the compactness of those cameras. My favourite of these is a Kochmann Korelle, but a Zeh Goldi is good too. These little folders often have a Compur shutter, and I've rarely seen them with anything other than a triplet lens. Not all triplets are the same, and people differ about which they like. I have been pleased with my cameras with the Meyer Trioplan, and perhaps less so with the ones with Radionars, although that may be down to how well the individual lenses have aged. I find it's <em>always </em>worth cleaning the lens elements before trying out a new camera.</p>

<p>I have a Foth Derby, and wouldn't be without it: one of very few 127 cameras with a focal-plane shutter. I'm not sure I would rate it as one of the best 127 cameras other than that one feature though. McKeown's book says they made some with an Elmar lens on, but you will always see them with a Foth Anastigmat. I think the simple pull-out strut mechanism makes the lens position a little bit uncertain. A conventional folder is better in that respect. Also, you're likely to have to replace the shutter cloth on these - you could see clear through it on mine. This was the most ambitious repair I've done; I was really surprised I got the thing back together.</p>

 

<p>Yashica 44a's are pretty reasonably priced, they are missing the slow speeds of the 44 but are good shooters.</p>

4 X 4 TLR's were popular in the 60's. See - http://www.camerapedia.org/wiki/Primo_Jr - . Sawyer, Ricoh and others. Some were rebadged Toyo cameras I think. They turn up on EBay from time to time.

<p>I just bought a Yashica 44 for around $50 of ebay. It was kind of strange, one week they were going for well over a $100, even the yashica 44a, the next week they were selling for around $50. I think if you are a little patient you can snag one for a good price.</p>

<p>Lets see, the <a href="http://www.pbase.com/maderik/dolly">Certo Dolly Vest Pocket</a> has a nice 75mm focusing triplet, shoots the 6.5x4 format but can fold up and fit in even a jeans pocket. It was under $40 from that auction site in perfect working condition, but they don't seem to be common. The <a href="http://www.pbase.com/maderik/primo">Primo Jr</a> has already been mentioned; mine was ~$60 but needed the shutter unstuck. There are a number of 1/2 frame rangefinders like the <a href="http://www.pbase.com/maderik/acro">Acro Scientific R</a>. And while it's fixed focus and auto exposure, the <a href="http://www.pbase.com/maderik/bellhowell_ee127">Bell & Howell EE 127</a> impressed me with it's solid metal build and decent lens. </p>

<p>I have a Yashica 44, a Ricoh 44, a Primo Jr and a gray baby Rollei. The Rollei cost me $80, the rest less than $50. Good inexpensive ones are out there. The Primo Jr is really primo and I almost prefer it to the Rollei.</p>

<p>The Tokyo Optical (Topcon) Primo Jr (or the Wards incarnation) is an excellent 127 TLR. Prices can be reasonable, if you're patient.<br>

There is a rather rare version of the Kodak Vest Pocket Special with a real Compur shutter and Zeiss Tessar. However, even the versions with the Kodak Ball Bearing shutter aren't bad, so long as you get one with a (front-element) focusing lens, they have a wide range of f-stops. These are nice in that they are full frame, 4 x 6.5cmm -- a generous negative. There's also a nice Vest Pocket Kodak Special Series III, which is a folding bed camera, quite nice.<br>

Any Foth Derby you find with an original shutter curtain will need the curtains replaced. The lens is decent, but you only get a 3x4cm negative, barely larger than 35mm full-frame. Plus, the shutter kicks like a mule -- a lot of camera shake.</p>

<p>As the owner (and user), of a Yashica 44LM, a grey Baby Rollei and a Topcon PrimoJr (= Sawyer MkIV), none of which did cost me more than $100 on ebay (the 44LM and the Primo Jr were both under $50 - but you need to be patient and know how to look for bargains), I would tend to agree with Chauncey: the Primo Jr is probably the best of the lot (e.g., lever rather than knob advance, 1:2.8 rather than 1.35 lens).<br>

It is a pity, though, that your film trove is all B/W. There is no real rationale for using a 4x4 camera to take B/W photos, but for the fun of it. Slides, however, are a completely different affair. 4x4 slides uses 5x5 frames and are thus compatible with standard 35mm projectors, but boast a far larger surface. Intermingling some such "superslides" in a normal 35mm slide projection is guaranteed to elicit a chorus of "oooh" and "aaaaah" from the audience.</p>

<p><a href="http://www.nwmangum.com/Kodak/VPKIII-1.html">Nice page on Vest Pocket Kodak, Series III</a>.<br>

Risk with this one is that you may need to find a replacement bellows. I don't know if they are from the era when Kodak made junk synthetic bellows. The original scissor-strut Vest Pocket Kodaks tend to have sound bellows.</p>

<p>One of my very best shooters is a Goerz Tenax. It's not 4x4 but rather a full frame. It is unit focus and is really excellent. Mine is rather unusual as it has a Silver Plate Back. I use the plate back more than the 127 roll film. Here are some pics of it.</p><div></div>

<p>Here is the plate back, plate holders and roll film back cover.</p><div></div>

<p>Here is a color shot of the Silver Plate Back, It's really beautiful!</p><div></div>

<p>Here is a shot looking through the ground galss.</p><div></div>

<p>Wow Gene, The Bell and Howell Electric Eye 127 is one of the coolest looking cameras i ever seen, and i love its Denim outfit. So is it a single shutter speed with and automatically adjusting Iris?</p>

<p>And Mr. Ezio. I don't think its really a Pity. I like B&W film, and 127 gives a larger negative than 35mm film. 127 is still considered medium format in the 4x4 or 4x6 format. Its just a pity that i don't have a better camera to use it in , and its a pity i cant find B&W rolls 135 film for even twice what i paid per 127 roll. When it comes to film i always seem to meet people or sources for that . But for cameras i have to comb the auction sites.<br /> I know about the Super slides and yes i have even used a super slide mask on my 120 film TLR camera to shoot slide film and have it mounted as such. Yes it would be nice to find a cheap 127 slide film source. However i was thinking of looking into the making B&W slides from B&W negatives. I think this would be a great opportunity to try this method i been hearing about.. I also just met someone selling five 100 foot rolls of expired 46mm unperforated color portra 160 film for a hundred dollars. It shouldn't bee too bad since the cans are still taped and sealed. i would probably test a bit calibrated to 100 and then some at 120 to see how it turns out. I just will not have the money for a while to buy it, and he will only sell it all at once, so i hope he waits.</p>

<p>Cliff that camera looks so darn beautiful with that silver back. Your a lucky guy. and Now when you say Full frame , do you mean 4x6 on a 127 roll, Because I always think of 4x4 is full frame kinda like how other are always telling me 6x6 full frame is on 120 rolls. And i would also think that.</p>

<p>Cliff, never mind. I think you meant the full frame the cameras capable of. I got you , well i wouldn't mind that size ether as long as i have a nice lens putting an image on the negative. Well that camera looks like its a joy to shoot with..<br>

I wish i had built a Hassy medium format camera system when i started photography instead of a 135 SLR, because then all i would have to do is find a superslide back. Oh well </p>

<p>Yes it's 4x6 on 127 and the plate holders are the 4.5x6 Atom size. It really is a wonderful little camera. And I have a full set of filters, lens shade, and close up lenses for it. It really is super! Maybe I'll do another post on it one of these days to show off the quality of the Goerz lens and the pictures that it can make.</p>

<p>Yes i would defiantly be interested in seeing that.. I'm guessing that kinda camera even without the back is out of my price range too.. haha.</p>

<p>The first good camera I had was a Sawyer's Mark IV TLR. Great little machine, with a sharp and contrasty lens. The super slides were nice. I'd have it still if it hadn't been stolen back in 1967. Not an easy find these days, I guess, but that would still be my choice if I had a freezer full of 127 to burn up.</p>