Pricing for group shot and 75 head shots

<p>Hello! I'll soon be shooting pictures for an arts organization of about 75 members. I'll take a group shot and then individual head shots. I just came from photo school (Part 1), which didn't discuss the business side of things (that's Part 2), so I'd like some guidance about what to charge.....at least a range. </p>

<p>I am actually shooting this pro bono, which is my way of contributing to them instead of making a contribution to their annual fund. And frankly, being fresh out of photo school, I'm trying to establish contacts, and if this goes well it will give me a good start on that. But I want to place a value on my time for tax purposes, since donations to this non-profit organization are tax deductible. </p>

<p>The group has a retreat on Oct. 11, and I'll be there shooting basically the entire day from 9:00-3:00 or 4:00. In addition, since some of the people won't be at the retreat, we've identified another day for me to do 'make-up' head shot sessions. I will be transporting all of my lighting equipment to their venue (twice), and I'll be doing the editing for all the shots. </p>

<p>I have no idea how to place a value on that. I was thinking in the range of $1000-1500. Is that way off base? I would appreciate your help. </p>

<p>Although I am not a seasoned professional with a lot of experience, I had a lot of studio experience this summer at the Rocky Mountain School of Photography....a 3-month 9-12-hour-a-day summer intensive program. So though I don't have a reputation yet as a photographer, I don't want to sell myself short because of that. I saw the head shots this group had taken last year, and I know I can do a better job than that. They paid him a fee, though I don't know how much. </p>

<p>Please advise.....and thanks for your time.</p>

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<p>But I want to place a value on my time for tax purposes, since donations to this non-profit organization are tax deductible.</p>

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<p> <br>

See page 6 of <a href="http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p526.pdf">this document.</a></p>

<p>I am sure someone else will know this better than I but I am fairly sure that you can't deduct time donated to a charity. Only actual expenses, such as paper and film. Your mileage is deductible too. </p>

<p>Please check with an expert on this but I am pretty sure you are heading for shoals if you try to deduct your time.</p>

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<p>I am sure someone else will know this better than I but I am fairly sure that you can't deduct time donated to a charity. </p>

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<p> <br>

That's what the link I posted (to a government document) says. See my response above.</p>

<p>We must have posted at the same time. Good to have the right document.</p>

<p>Jeff.....Well, it was a good idea while it lasted! :-) Thanks for the link. I guess the bottom line is our tax advisor. We'll ask him what can be deducted as I try to start my fledgling photography business. I know you have to turn a profit within so many years. </p>

<p>Okay, even if I can't place a value on my time, I'm still curious approximately how much someone would charge for this type of job. Do you have any ideas?</p>

<p>Rick....yes, I see that now. Thanks for your response! Do you know who I could consult or if there is an online guide for pricing? I'd still really like to know about what someone would charge for a job like this.</p>

If the school you went to was a commercial art school for and didn't offer even basic courses in business I think that is

malpractice and unethical. Hopefully you won't be paying off student loans for the rest of your life.

 

If you are in the USA, look up a local Small Business Adnministration to find courses and mentors.

<p>There usually is a sliding scale for head shots. 75 people a $100 per person is fair. You can offer up to 50% discount for a non profit organization.</p>

<p>In addition to biz advice, make sure you have a step ladder for the group shot.</p>

<p>Ellis, they do offer extensive business classes and accounting, web design, marketing....and on and on. But that's in the 2nd part of the course, and I could only take the 1st part because I had to return to work after my Sabbatical. So I plan to take that next summer. Also, the program is outstanding (Rocky Mountain School of Photography in Missoula, MT), but it isn't a 4-year college degree like Brooks Institute. (And it doesn't have Brooks price tag either!) It's a 3-month summer intensive.....9-12 hours per day. I learned a LOT, but not everything yet obviously. If I had stayed for the entire program, it would have been 6 months. So anyway, I just haven't learned all of the business stuff yet! </p>

<p>Michael....gosh, that sounds like a lot of money, but that's encouraging. I'm doing this pro bono, but if I were to charge, I wouldn't charge that much until I get more experience under my belt. But it's nice to get a ball park idea. Of course, I see that you're in NYC, and I imagine everything costs much more there than in the Midwest. But I appreciate your info! Thanks!</p>

 

<p>Ian......good advice......especially because I'm short! Thanks!</p>

<p><Of course, I see that you're in NYC, and I imagine everything costs much more there than in the Midwest.><br>

Which is my point. You really can't ask for pricing on a forum where everyone is located all over the world. You need to find out in your own geographical location. If you are happy only charging $20 per person then do so. Yes experience also is factored in pricing.</p>

Get enough money so that you can buy us a camp dinner in the Smokies! LOL... Mike

Hi Christal, glad to see you've made it through part 1 of the course.

 

Don't underestimate how huge this job is. Shooting 75 people is an enormous task. Even if you only spend ten

minutes with each person (which I would consider the minimum), that's 12.5 hours of straight shooting without any

breaks and assuming nobody shows up late or takes a little longer than average.

 

Then you have all the shots from 12.5 hours of shooting to edit and sort through. Presumably you will be retouching

the final selects, so that's 75 retouching jobs unless you plan on farming that out to someone else. If you are doing

this pro-bono as a way to drum up some business, you need to deliver really polished final shots, otherwise it's not

worth it.

 

This is going to keep you busy for a long time. $100/person is quite cheap. I break my estimates into the various

tasks and charge fees for online delivery, retouching, shooting, mileage, assistant, license (which with head shots is

usually very broad). Even if you charged a bargain-basement price of $25/shot for retouching, that's $1875 in

retouching alone — and who can argue with that? I don't think you could get a college student to retouch a photo for

less than $25.

 

I'm not in a market anywhere near the size of New York and I would consider $10k the absolute floor for a job like

this. For a little perspective, I shoot quite a few commercial portraits for trade magazines and $1500 for a single portrait

without travel expenses is pretty normal. Generally, they are a little more involved than a headshot, but not much.

Also, because of employee turnover, businesses frequently need to shoot new headshots. The price you set with

this job will be used when this client needs just one or two new shots next year.

 

If you are working for businesses as a business, you need to get rid of the price model you have as a consumer and

employee. As a business owner you will have a LOT more expenses, self-employment tax, no retirement matching,

gear depreciation, etc. $1500 for a huge job like this is completely unsustainable. I often suggest people do a price

survey for non-photographic business-to-business services as a way to reorient their pricing perspective. What

would a commercial auto mechanic charge for a job that takes this long? How much do businesses pay for CAM

(Common Area Maintenance) on their buildings? How much do they pay for HR software and support? Once you

start doing this, you'll see that $10k for a job like this is not that much money, especially considering how much use

a business is able to get from a headshot and how important they are.

<p>She's not charging for the job. Read the original post. It's pro bono and she's just looking for a cost estimate, at least initially for the wrong reason but later changed. All this doom and gloom about her financial life is irrelevant.</p>

I understand that Jeff and addressed it. Nevertheless, she asked how we would price the job, which is the

question I answered.

 

What doom and gloom are you talking about? I don't think I mentioned her financial life — I did mention

expenses, which at least in my experience are a pretty important part of determining how to price jobs.

Maybe you do it differently.

<p>10 minutes is a long time for someone to sit getting a headshot. 4 Minutes is more than enough for the most awkward person most people can be shot in 2 minutes. Full body shots or environmental shots can take longer of course but basic head shots there is not much positioning to do other than turn this way or tilt your head. 10 minutes is over kill in my opinion.</p>

<p>I also charge up to $1,200 for one headshot and I don't feel I have to spend more than 5 minutes with them because of the $. They are paying for the know how not the time.</p>

<p>In any case Mark is right it is a very big job to shoot for free. Just because it is non profit is no reason to offer free services. You can give them a discount but at least charge something. </p>

More power to you Michael — I've never been comfortable scheduling shots that tightly.

 

There is definitely a history of great photographers working quickly. I was once photographed by Marc

Hauser in Chicago. This was back in the film days. He took four exposures and told me he had it (he did). I

still have that print on my bookcase.

 

I also had the good luck to spend some time with a man in Texas who worked on some of the old Marlboro

ads for Leo Burnett. He had all sorts of stories about photographers, including Ernst Haas who apparently

would complain about 'bullshit photographers' always asking for 'one more shot' over and over. He said

Haas would show up, find the shot, make a few exposures and call it good.

 

You gotta respect that.

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<p>In any case Mark is right it is a very big job to shoot for free.</p>

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<p><br />I don't know how anyone on the internet can presume to know enough about someone they don't know to decide how much that person should or should not donate to an organization they care about. I know people who give away over half their income and work for months at a time for causes they believe in. Right now, I'm donating a lot of time to a local organization that builds low income housing because they had a fire they destroyed some of their construction. If anyone, especially a random person on an internet forum, was arrogant enough to tell me how much time and energy I should put into trying to improve the world, I would respond with stuff that wouldn't fly on photo.net.<br>

<br>

Maybe I'm careful about how I choose my friends, everyone I know has been incredibly supportive. But most of them spend some of their time trying to make the world a better place rather than thinking about how to make the most money.<br>

<br>

Hopefully Christal will do what she thinks is right, ethical, and productive for her rather than thinking about how much money she can make.</p>

For the record, I didn't suggest she shouldn't shoot the job pro bono.

<p>Mark she said she was shooting it for free. You said it was a big job and I agreed.<br /> Jeff she did not post that this was a save the world charity kind of thing where she wanted to give her heart felt time. I am all for that as well. She asked what one would charge but was reluctant to charge for reasons that she described and went on to say she would rather make contacts for future personal gain in her business. Not exactly what you are implying in your last post.</p>