Photographer's Rights?

Hi:

Based on other threads in the website,I understand that shopping

malls and retails stores have a right to forbid photography --

private property, etc. However, I also had a similar problem while

standing on a street in New York city.

 

I was standing on a *public street.* I was trying to photograph the

front window of the PRADA store to catch the street reflections in

the store window.

 

The security guard told me that I wasn't allowed to do this -- when I

politely pointed out that I was standing on the STREET and not in the

store, he threatened to call the police.

 

Where do I stand in this situation?

You're right. He's wrong. He's too big for his shoes.

 

Mind you, even if you're in the right, he could have just told the police that you're a terrorist and you'd have been arrested without discussion.

On the side of truth, justice and the American way.

calling the nypd? tell him to go ahead while you can finish up your shots and leave. no one is going to show up anyway...

I've recently had exactly the same issue. I've been told by a restaurant employee that if I don't stop taking pictures outside of their establishment, he'll ask a police officer to escort me.

You have the right to photograph anything you want while on a public street in NYC. There may be a problem on certain sidewalks that have a little plaque that says "this is the private property of ___" I had a problem on 47th and Madison and immediately called 311 and was directed to someone who said even then I was likely within my rights because they may not have had any marker designating the sidewalk as their property. I certainly didn't see any such marker there. I think some security guards may be frieghtened for their jobs and become over zealous or they may be instructed by the store manager to go out and tell the photographer to stop taking pictures. Who knows? I guess if you don't look like a tourist they think you are up to no good.

As long as you are on public property, i.e. the sidewalk, the police cannot legaly do anything as you are not breaking any laws. They may still ask you if would move along in the spirit of politeness, but you are not obligated to do so, as long as you stay on the sidewalk. Having said that, you should be aware that in New York, they are working, and may have already passed, a law prohibiting photography (without a permit )in transit areas, like Grand Central Station and the subways.

 

- Randy

Dan,

 

Asking for, and receiving are obviously not the same thing. If you want to engage in banter with the employee, try asking that person to specify exactly what law he/she thinks you are violating. The police are charged with enforcing the laws as they have been enacted.

 

Regards,

I would recommend politely calling their bluff. "If you want to call the police, go ahead."

 

'Course if it were me, I'd probably leave, and spend the rest of the day simmering with

rage ... but I don't recommend that, as it's not fun and it doesn't make good pictures.

 

The little "private property" plaques you sometimes see on sidewalks probably have no

effect on your photographic rights. They're there so that if the owner of the property ever

wants to build out further, they won't be hindered by "right to ramble" type claims.

I did spend the rest of the day simmering with rage. The problem is cops don't always do what they're expected in situations like this. I didn't want to take chances.

Another issue was trying to photograph "Interpol" when they were playing at the openining of an Adidas store (inside the store) on South Street (Philadelphia). The security guards told me I can't take pictures, even though I was outside of the store, photographing an event that took place inside the store.

I'm guessing you could see some sort of product display through the window of the Prada store, yes? That's probably why you got hassled. Many stores are very touchy about having their retail displays photographed.

Do a search on Bert Krages and download "The Photographers Right" which is about as cogent a statement of what you can do as you'll find. There's one in my camera bag whenever I visit the USA.

 

New York in particular seems to be a real focal point for this sort of thing and I can reckon on at least a couple of confrontations per trip whenever I'm there, to the point that it now bothers me not at all. If I am on public ground, I generally find that behaving in a confident manner, stressing that I've had this argument a zillion times before, and that if he doesn't desist then it will be me that calls the police to complain about his illegal harassment and obstruction, is enough to make them go away. Most of them are only doing it because their boss - who might be watching on CCTV - has told them to stop people photographing their building, and they don't actually know anything or care much themselves.

You have every right to photograph the store window as long as you are on a public street. If you were in a mall it would be a different story. Just tell them if you have anything you don't photographed take it out of the window.

If this post was from Rene B, I'd just sing, "Just walk away, Rene..."

Let him call the cops, and keep shooting while you wait for them to show up. If he so much as touches you, press assault charges as soon as the cops arrive.

Keep shooting and let him call the police. Not an issue.<BR><P>

<center>

<img src="http://pages.sbcglobal.net/b-evans/Images11/

PradaWomen%205x7.jpg"><BR>

<I>Prada Women - Brad Evans 2003</I>

</center>

<i>Edward H , apr 21, 2005; 01:44 p.m.<br>

You're right. He's wrong....</i>

<p>

Edward, youre only partially right. probably not the case with Prada but certain buildings in NYC do own the sidewalk or part of it.

edmo . , apr 21, 2005; 09:36 p.m. said: Edward, youre only partially right. probably not the case with Prada but certain buildings in NYC do own the sidewalk or part of it.

 

Simple... step off the curb [preferably between two parked cars so you don't get whacked by traffic] or shoot across his private patch of sidewalk from someone else's patch of private sidewalk.

 

Hunter

hard to shoot reflections in windows from standing in the middle of the street...

Coincidental...! I was told quite rudely not take photos in front of a building and threatened with the police. I smiled and said, "Go ahead, this is a public sidewalk; you can't order me around like your hired butler." Sure enough, because some rather "highbrow" people live in that particular building (hint: the building overlooks Lincoln Center), the police DID come.

 

They went over to the doorman and the building manager; he came to me and ordered me to, "Move along or else." I simply took out a pen, copied his badge number and name, and asked him to give me the precinct he was assigned to. He did. And I asked him, "What law gives you the right to prevent me from taking a photo on a public sidewalk where I am NOT obstructing the walkway?" He said, I was disturbing the peace and that I was also making a scene... The other officer murmured, "Let's haul his [butt] in and teach him a lesson," and I said, "Oh, really, well, let me call the attorney I work with and see what I can sue YOU for, OK?" He kept quiet.

 

I called my buddy, standing a few feet away, and he gave me his cell number, I called the precinct and asked to speak with the precinct commander, but was given some other flunky. I explained what happened; he said that I could not take photos there because it was "against the law" and when I asked him to recite the exact law he was referring to, he was unable to; I requested his name and was put on hold and waited for about three minutes. I called again, spoke to yet someone else, and I demanded to speak with someone who could tell me his/her name and could also quote the law or city ordinance that prohibited me from taking photos of one particular building that was across the street from where I was being harrassed by a building manager who didn't want me to take photos by the curb of the public sidewalk in near the front of their building. Guess what? I gave the name of the officer and his badge number (and I mentioned a few elected officials' offices I was going to report this to), and the person asked me to put the officer on the line. The officer smiled at the building manager, took the telephone, listened, handed the telephone back to me, walked toward his cruiser, got in and drove away. I finished taking the photos. Just as I was leaving, I turned around and snapped a photo of the irate doorman and building manager that were glaring at me and said, "Have a nice day!"

 

I am of short stature and I am the most unopposing, unthreatening person you might find, but I do not back off easily (which has gotten me into a few scrapes). My gray hairs don't get much respect, either.... not in NYC!

 

Sometimes knowing WHAT questions to ask and knowing the correct answer BEFOREHAND goes a long way (and being able to pull a good bluf certainly helps).

Flat-footed, Berman. I usually avoid altercations simply by not looking so f-ing obvious as to attract attention. Scope the shot, study the set-up, and just do it and leave. Friends have risked arrest and damaged equipment by lugging tripods, huge bags and, in one act of sheer lunacy, lighting equipment onto the sidewalk in front of a store.Aptitude not attitude rules the day.

<i>They may still ask you if would move along in the spirit of politeness, but you are not

obligated to do so, as long as you stay on the sidewalk.

</i><br><br>In many jurisdictions you can be cited for failure to follow a policeman's

orders even if you aren't breaking any other law. You might be able to get them in trouble

if the orders have no legitimate purpose, but it still doesn't mean you can ignore them

with impunity.

<br><br>

<i>As long as you are on public property, i.e. the sidewalk...

</i><br><br>Often sidewalks are private property with a public easement. But even on

private property, even inside a mall, they have no legal right to demand you stop taking

pictures--they can only demand you leave. And demanding you leave a public easement

like a sidewalk probably isn't going to work very well.

<i><br><br>

I'm guessing you could see some sort of product display through the window of the Prada

store, yes? That's probably why you got hassled. Many stores are very touchy about having

their retail displays photographed.

</i><br><br>I'm sure that's the reason, but it still doesn't give them the right. What's

really, really funny to me is that I have shot retail displays for reference several times--

always inside stores--and never been bothered. As reference shots I didn't care much

about the quality. But shooting personal, harmless stuff, but for which I want decent

quality, then they get all cranky.

<br><br><br>

_ Cálico _: Thanks for a perfect example of how to deal with this kind of situation, and also

a warning that they might "haul your (butt) in to teach you a lesson" even if you haven't

done anything wrong. They hold you for a few hours to rub in that they have power and

you don't, then magnanimously decide to drop all of the bogus charges they've made up.

Getting justice going up against a police dept. is a very hard thing.

<<< ...They hold you for a few hours to rub in ...>>

 

Last year, a young photographer posted an experience in which that was precisely what happened. In his case, as I recall, he was photographing a sunset, but standing near power lines/power plant/generator ... something that brought him to the attention of officers.

On the other hand, if you don't happen to need the shot, there is nothing wrong with complying with a request to stop taking pictures. Whether your actions are legal or not, making an ass of yourself just for the purpose of proving your point only makes these situations more difficult for the rest of us, as people become more jaded towards photographers.