PCs and Apples?

Folks, I'm not trying to start a war, I just have an innocent question.

 

I'm a long-time PC user, it's all I know. I've read so many posts here that

have degenerated into mean-spirted exchanges over PCs and Apples. I love PCs,

and I'm sure if I used an Apple I'd love them too. To me, it seems pretty much

irrelevant what machinery one uses to produce images. I've read posts where

someone will ask a question pertaining to a PC, and some knucklehead out of

nowhere will pipe-in and say something like "get an Apple," or "Apples are the

best," etc., and this response is totally unrelated to the original post about

PCs.

 

To me, this seems to be the crux of whole matter: will your images be superior,

in any way, if you used an Apple instead of a PC? If not, then why is it

relevant, in any way, what platform you choose to use? And why do some people

feel so strongly that a photographer is missing something if he/she doesn't use

an Apple? If the ultimate quality of images is the same between the two

machines, then why all the puffery and passion? I really don't get it.

 

Thanks.

I think there's no doubt that your computer platform has no relevance whatever to final

image quality. The only reason I myself have always used a Mac is because that's what I

started out with in high school. The explanation for all the puffery and passion is that

people are driven by narcissism, emotion and ego, as well as facts. It was the story of

humanity at the beginning, and it will be at the end.

Thanks Yeung, so it's kind of like a character flaw, or a human failing?

I would say it's human nature, and human nature will never change. People invest their ego

in their possessions, and they like to demonstrate their dominance over others using their

possessions as proxies. It's chest-pounding behavior for the digital age.

Thanks again Yeung-Seu, I see, human nature. Yet it's human nature to do a lot things, like lie, cheat on your taxes, lust after your neighbor, but this doesn't mean it's an okay thing to do, or the right thing to do, is my point.

I am also a PC user and pro photographer. A couple of years ago I tried moving over to the Mac platform, mostly because (probably like you) I felt it was the 'right' thing to do and because it's the industry standard and just better to look at. Of course there is no difference in the quality of images produced. Certain things are easier, such as color management. In the end, though, there were severall things I found I couldn't live with and moved back to PC.

Having said that, I may reconsider next year when MS support for XP ends, as my experience with Vista has not been good and Mac machines are now running on the faster Intel platform.

It's more to do with frustration than anything else. A PC user will ask more questions on how to install or fix something on their computer than a Mac user. Viruses, malware and so forth. So the easiest answer is to tell someone to get a Mac.

Jeffrey

 

Its like Ford or Chevy. Both of them are cars and they do what cars should do.

PCs & Apples is vastly different from Apples & Oranges.

 

Good on you for asking this question.

 

Several months ago I asked in one of the forums - likely this one -

about the difficulties and up'ndownsides to migrating from PC to

Macland. I was mostly concerned about the new [then] Vista OS and

the nagging reports of driver incompatibilities and heaviness of the

thing - the machine that carried this OS had to be well-endowed.

 

Well, endowment's a good thing to be sure, but why on earth would I

want to use the machine's resources to benefit running a bloated OS.

I mean, what the hell for?

How would this benefit me? my workflow? my

productivity? my enjoyment of doing this thing?

 

I am a retired software engineer, system engineer, systems programmer

and software developer. The "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" approach has been inculcated into me for over 40 years and on 3 continents. I abide by it.

For the applications user, the OS is best left in the background.

 

I got some decent answers to be sure but I was troubled a bit by

the intensity of the answers. Intensity and passion are right for

arguments about religion and perhaps some kinds of politics but I begin to feel uncomfortable when the "Belief System" sign

starts to blink in discussions about equipment -

any kind of equipment, application software, system software and basically anything with the quality of physicality, things which can be quantified.

 

When I learned I could get a new-architecture PC with the XP OS from

Dell I went ahead and ordered that. It may well be true that a new

broom sweeps clean, but it's equally true that the old broom knows

where the dirt's at.

 

I like what I got. It does the job I want it to do; it does what I thought it would do.

 

Would I ever consider getting a Mac in the future? You bet I would.

Would the Mac give me the same results? I'm absolutely sure of it.

 

It's fine to ask for advice & comment about a purchasing decision

or direction and the answers one gets on PN are usually pretty good

and often helpful. But it would be best for the asker to do the

necessary homework and to develop some self-confidence before

the asking, and before the answers arrive. Otherwise it's probably

difficult to evaluate, understand and integrate that information

into what you know. Soliciting advice can serve as a sanity check

but you need some prior rudimentary knowledge yourself.

 

Good questions are almost always better than good answers and you

asked a good question. Thanks.

David, no desire to move over to Mac here, in fact I just purchased a new Dell loaded with XP Pro. I'll worry about the Vista issue when it becomes a real issue.

 

Sam, I think that I'm so used to working with PCs that I have no frustrations. Maybe Macs are better suited for less savvy computer users? I don't know.

 

Michael, that's an analogy that hit home with me. I've been known to take a couple swipes at the Ford guys. :-)

You can make fine images on any platform... including an enlarger in a chemical darkroom.

 

One _computer_ platform or the other may have advantages that make working with it more

effective or easier, in the same way that a particular enlarger might provide greater

efficiency or ease of use.

 

Dan

Yoni, well said! I congratulate you!

 

I did the exact same thing you did in opting for a Dell PC with XP Pro. I got an e520 (Duo 6420) and updated it with 2 more GBs of Ram (to 4GB), and a second WD 320 GB HD, from Newegg.com.

 

It is interesting to consider what I might have done had XP Pro not been still available as an option. I think I have the horsepower to run Vista, but like you, the OS system is just a means to an end.

 

And I think too that there's too much passion about, what seems to me, a minor issue at best, considering that the whole point here should be about photography, and not hardware.

 

Thanks for your observations!

I think you have to use both systems to appreciate why a Mac has its fan base. I use both PC and Mac systems and there are just some things that a Mac does better especially for graphical use. There is a reason why a lot of photographers and graphics artists prefer Macs. Some of it is quantifiable like build quality, customer service, ease of use etc...A lot of the reasons are not quantifiable so it makes its justification hard unless you are used to using both systems.

 

I am pretty computer savvy, building my own desktop machines but for my laptop use I chose an iBook. The iBook is a much less hassle to use especially keeping the computer patched. I need to update Windows virus checker daily whereas with the Mac I don't have to and for me the Mac update system works superior to the Windows system.

 

But the PC system has it's advantages mainly in price and the number of software it can run. But those differences are actually diminishing as price of the two systems are pretty similar and you can run Windows on a Mac.

 

The difference to me isn't really a Ford vs Chevy, It's more a Toyota vs Chevy. You pay a little extra for the quality of a Toyota and for some people they will never buy an American car.

Dan exactly, so no need to criticise someone for NOT having a problem working with a platform that someone else may deem to be less convienent to work with.

 

In fact, for me to switch to Apple would be way more inconvenient than staying with PCs. Thanks.

Sam, I fear you may have opened another can of worms. :-) To me it's pretty much debatable that Toyotas possess greater "quality" than Chevys. I just purchased a new Chevy a couple months ago, and I considered all my options first, and price wasn't the issue.

I am a Mac user. I'd always used PCs before, but when I started buying machines expressly

for photography, I switched. Just 'cus.

 

Recently I was shopping for small business accounting software. (Bookkeeping! Woohoo!)

There were many more options for the PC.

Jeffrey, I am not saying that Chevys are worse cars than Toyotas. But there is a brand perception that leads people to people purchasing Toyotas over Chevy. You can also debate the merits of Apple products vs their PC clones. The biggest non secret out there is that the same company manufactures PC Laptops that manufactures Apple laptops. The original Apple Powerbooks for example were actually designed by Sony.

Interesting responses and the best one is the one that says it's a personal choice, and

really nothing more. Each side can declare all the reasons for their choices, and somehow

they often just become excuses when the other side argues with them. It's really about

your (computer) workflow and the images you produce. Either will work.

 

That said, I used a PC my last 2+ years at work and shortly after I retired nearly 2 years

ago I bought a Mac (G5) and never looked back. I had problems with MS Windows and

Office after working with mainframe and Unix servers for the previous 20 years. The extra

money for the Mac was more than worth the savings in time and frustration over using a

PC.

 

I often wonder if IT units are in business because of PC's and all their quirks, problems and

need for frequent updates. Our IT section nearly doubled in size after management

announced going to PC on every desk despite the continual development in Unix systems

which required fewer IT staff. I ended up making my PC mimic a unix station since 90+%

of my work was still on Unix servers.

 

Just my observations sitting in front of my Mac with a smile and a cup of coffee.

Sam, I know, exactly, it's the "perception" that's the problem, not Chevys or PCs.

 

Peter, enjoy your Mac! And congrats!

Touche! Scott.

will your images be superior, in any way, if you used an Apple instead of a PC?

 

no.

 

If not, then why is it relevant, in any way, what platform you choose to use?

 

its not, a matter of taste period.

 

And why do some people feel so strongly that a photographer is missing something if he/she doesn't use an Apple?

 

graphic industry is using Mac forever, if everybody use it why wouldtn you? if any problem you have a lot of people who can help. Also good if everybody around you have PC, why would you go with a Mac?

 

If the ultimate quality of images is the same between the two machines, then why all the puffery and passion?

 

some people like mercedes vs bmw

 

some people like green apple vs red one

 

some people like white wine vs red wine

 

...i prefer a Mac vs a PC, and im more comfortable working on a Mac.

Im also a graphic designer who like beautiful object, and i think that Mac as a step further design wise vs PC...thats all.

Fair enough Patrick, but why do knuckleheads mouth-off in PC threads that have nothing to do with Macs? I never see this happen in the Apple threads. Is it that Mac users are more passionate than PC users? Or is it that mind control exists in the Mac world?

 

I really don't want a company messing with my mind. Do you?

Sam, the question was about the passion that Mac users enjoy. I can't imagine either a Chevy or Toyota owner wearing the t-shirt, hanging out in the showroom or paying attention to their leader's every word.

I think what the OP hints at is the mysterious evangelism that is unique to some brands, including Apple, Nike, etc. Nike would want you to believe that if you wear their product you can 'Just Do It'. Apple want you to believe that their product is 'more intuitive' or 'for creative types rather than office nerds'. Of course, they both would love for this message to be spread far and wide - after all, viral advertising is virtually free. The more that Apple can encourage the 'exclusive club' image the better for them. You're just not likely to hear a Dell owner evangelise in the same way. This is about brand identity, not a product that produces better photos.

And I think this is the crux of the matter. Each platform has its advantages and disadvantages, but the passion that the OP refers to is the result of one brand (as opposed to PC's many diverse manufacturers) and it's brilliant marketing.

The platform / hardware does not control the image outcome. Great images can come

from either. So can poor ones.

 

Computer choice can be very personal and people base their life view and self-esteem on

their choices - too much so. People can become very passionate about their beliefs /

ideas. In this case, there is no right or wrong, just preferences. Advocates' actions are not

always rational but frequently are very emotional.

 

To me, it is about ease of use, reliability, consistency. How easy or difficult is it to acheive

the results I am after? Depends on the software. And the software includes the operating

system (Mac, Linux, Windows, or others) as well as the application (PhotoShop, Aperture,

Nikon Capture NX, etc.). Software selection will dictate hardware needs.

 

I work with Macs and PCs with Windows XP plus Windows server products. I prefer one for

photographic work (Macs) but also rely heavily on Windows for my job (I'm an engineer).

Either system can be rewarding or frustrating, depending on the user's experience.

Overall, I find the Mac experience to be less frustrating and much more rewarding than the

Windows/PC experience. That has been my personal experience and what I have observed

of other's experiences.

 

I tend to recommend Macs with their higher reliability, easier use, and fewer problems to

newbys. I hate to see someone just starting out run into the brick wall of computer

problems and lousy support that I see and experience so commonly in the PC world. It can

sour them on a very rewarding hobby or profession - photography.

 

Apple has been very smart in setting up their stores where help is readily available and

free classes abound. I encounter dumbfounded PC users frequently and hear their horror

stories. I usually help coworkers and employees with free tech support on their PCs.

 

I believe the purpose of photo.net is to share knowledge and experience and help each

other. I have learned a lot here over the years and believe that sharing my skills and

knowledge is important. As a professional engineer, that is one our goals - to share

engineering knowledge and experience.

 

In the end, I don't care what someone uses. It is their time, money, and energy. But I hate

to see someone new go through the pain many experience in using their computers when

there may be a less painful alternative they are unaware of.

Any car will get you where you are going. So why do you like one over another?