NEC P242W with SpectraView weird flicker

<p>My first P242W developed a flicker at about 18 months. It would show up a couple of minutes after turning on the monitor and it would go away after 10 or 20 minutes. It didn't matter if it was in Factory Preset or calibrated mode.<br>

I got a new replacement unit 6 weeks ago and 2 weeks ago it developed a similar problem: it flickers within the first minute of turning it on and the flicker will last maybe 10 minutes. This time however, it only happens in calibrated mode, not in Factory Preset.<br>

The flicker happens both with DVI-D and with HDMI+USB modes, but with HDMI+USB it takes longer to start. It happens with 2 different PCs, so it's not a computer issue.<br>

I use the monitor at 105 nits to match the lighting in my digital darkroom. NEC support asked me to also try at 95 and 115 nits and guess what: no flicker at 95 and 115 nits. I'm continuing to work with NEC, but this really looks like a weird warm-up issue.<br>

Have any of you seen similar issues with NEC monitors and what was the cause and solution? And for the wise-cracks out there, using the monitor at a luminance different from 105 nits is not a solution.</p>

<p>deja vu<br>

Everything you need to know is here:<br>

http://www.photo.net/digital-darkroom-forum/00c06Z</p>

<p>No deja vu at all, Andrew. The flicker I'm talking about here is not present all the time. It starts some time after the monitor is switched on and goes away after a while. It's erratic and the monitor's intensity changes rapidly, several times a second. It's different in when it starts, when it stops and intensity between driving the monitor with DVI-D or HDMI+USB. It happens when in calibrated mode, but doesn't happen in Factory Preset. It happens at 105 nits, but not at 95 or 115 nits. NEC has told me that they are aware of some flicker issues that are dependent on the luminance level. So, not at all like the issue for some people that the normal backlight pulsing can cause eyestrain or headaches. Let's not jump to conclusions here.</p>

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<p>NEC has told me that they are aware of some flicker issues that are dependent on the luminance level</p>

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<p>Well that's from the horses mouth, nothing <strong>anyone</strong> here says will make that different. Use a different value. Or send it back. </p>

<p>Since this happened on two different monitors, I suggest you investigate a few other possible areas of failure.</p>

<p>1) The cables both the data cable and the power cord. Completely disconnect the data cable from both the monitor and your computer, then reconnect. Does the problem persist? Next disconnect the power cable from both the monitor and the power outlet, then reconnect.</p>

<p>2) Is the DVI cable not only seated but also screwed down tight on both ends?</p>

<p>3) If possible replace the data cable with a know good cable (although since both DVI and HDMI cables both exhibit the same problems, a bad cable is not likely).</p>

<p>4) The next component to eliminate is the graphics card in your computer. The fact that the new monitor worked for some weeks after it was installed, lessens the chance it is a graphics card problem, but it still should be checked. </p>

<p>5) Is there any strain or tension on the data cables? </p>

<p>By the way, what type of computer are you using? PC or Mac? is it a desktop or a laptop? Do you move the computer and/or monitor about or did they remain fixed between the time the monitor was installed and the problem manifested itself?</p>

<p>If it is not a monitor problem (the same problem with two different monitors is a low probability), I suspect that the physical connection between the computer is the problem. </p>

 

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<p>If it is not a monitor problem (the same problem with two different monitors is a low probability), I suspect that the physical connection between the computer is the problem.</p>

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<p>Could be environmental considering Franz's history with '<em>this issue</em>'. <br>

In the old days, this happened all the time with dual display CRT's and there was a company that produced a rather expensive shield I purchased to go between them, problem solved. <br>

Maybe a tin foil hat? <G>.</p>

<p>Andrew, Just don't reply if you have nothing of value to add here. I try to understand what happens and how to solve the issue, not apply a Band-Aid. Using a different value (something I suggested in my original post wise-cracks would suggest) or sending it back won't solve the issue. NEC wants to get to the bottom of this as well and has asked me to do yet another test at 104 nits; they appear to take this seriously, unlike you.</p>

<p>Brooks, Thanks for your suggestions. By the way, it's one monitor, different computers. I've done all the cable and power outlet swapping (DVI-D cable securely screwed down on both ends) and hooked the monitor up to a different computer with different cables: still flicker. NEC agrees that their monitors (both the first one and its replacement) are defective; they are aware of this happening to other customers as well and want to get to the bottom of this issue.</p>

<p>I've provided value, you just don't want to hear it. <br>

NEC told you the fix. I'm not going to ague with them, set the NITs value as they suggest. What's the big deal about upping the unit 10 units, especially IF this so called flicker disappears? <br>

Or just tell us what you want to hear and we'll reply as such. </p>

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<p>NEC wants to get to the bottom of this as well and has asked me to do yet another test at 104 nits; they appear to take this seriously, unlike you.</p>

 

 

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Get to the bottom of what? NEC support told you to also try at 95 and 115 nits and guess what: no flicker at 95 and 115 nits. Problem solved.

 

 

<p>You still don't get it, do you? NEC didn't tell me to use a different luminance level as a fix to the issue, but as a way for them to better understand what is causing this. This is what is called root-cause analysis. Look it up one of these days, you may learn something.</p>

<p>What I get is the settings <strong>they</strong> suggested fix the so called flicker. <br /> As for them <strong>needing</strong> <strong>you</strong> to better understand an issue you continue to report no matter what display (but always apparently NEC), best I say nothing. Seems like yet another stab of yours at windmills, why do you keep buying their problematic products? And further what do you expect us to do for you? You asked if anyone see's this, no I don't see it, I own three of their displays. Never seen any kind of flicker.<br>

You think you'll get any more traction with the same test over at LuLa? </p>

<p>Andrew,<br>

One more time: NEC DID NOT SUGGEST I USE A DIFFERENT LUMINANCE LEVEL TO FIX THE FLICKER. Get it? Now please go away.<br>

I'm not looking for "traction"; I'm looking for useful input and yours, I'm afraid, isn't. Get it?</p>

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<p>I'm looking for useful input and yours, I'm afraid, isn't. Get it?</p>

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<p>Yup, you're the man who's going to uncover for NEC, this flicker issue that only you can see. Got it. </p>

<p>I'm going to call this <em>deja vu</em> or, <em>why those who refuse to study history are destined to repeat it</em>. Or better: <em>The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.</em><br>

Way back in 2013, we had to slog thorough this with Franz, he asked a question, got these answers below. Now he's back. deja vu.</p>

 

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<p>Frans Waterlander , Sep 16, 2013; 07:50 p.m.<br>

It is reported that some people see flicker or experience eye strain or headaches when working with LED backlit monitors. <br>

Here's my question: have you experienced any of these issues - flicker, eye strain or headaches - when using an LED backlit monitor and if so, which monitor did you use and do you know by any chance the pulse width modulation frequency?</p>

<p>Dave Collett , Sep 16, 2013; 08:06 p.m.<br>

Nope, none at all</p>

<p>Lex Jenkins , Sep 16, 2013; 10:13 p.m.<br>

My inexpensive ViewSonic LED backlit monitor has been very easy on the eyes.</p>

<p>Tim Lookingbill , Sep 16, 2013; 11:21 p.m.<br>

The only difference I saw between switching from my CCFL backlit 22" Dell 2209WA to my current 27" LED LG 27ea63vp is that the bigger screen's wider line of sight reduces the adaptive effect caused by the differences of the darker surround which was more prominent with the Dell due to its smaller screen area<br>

The LG is quite uniform causing very little fatigue.</p>

<p>Ellis Vener , Sep 17, 2013; 12:40 a.m.<br>

No.</p>

<p>Keith Reeder , Sep 17, 2013; 10:13 a.m.<br>

I've used a 23" LG IPS backlit monitor for about three years, and have had no problems whatsoever with eyestrain, fatigue or flicker.</p>

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<p>So here we go again. This time we're supposed to believe the request for your data points on flickering, specifically for "<em>NEC monitors</em>" (not his specific model, just NEC in general) is some how going to aid Franz in adding NEC (as if they really need this). Maybe he should concentrate on just fixating and fixing his unit(s) first, rather than going on a fishing expedition again. <br>

Not sure what his agenda is.</p>

 

<p>Wrong again, Andrew. Three out of three other people can see the flicker and no, I didn't uncover it for NEC, they were already aware of it.</p>

<p>It is over-abundantly clear that you cannot distinguish between two very different issues. In 2013 the question was if some people can detect, either by direct observation or indirectly through eyestrain or headaches, the normal on-off cycling of the monitor backlighting. Now the issue is that on two out of two units that I received, over time something goes awry and causes, during warm-up, a temporary erratic flickering that is easily observed. If you concentrate deeply and read this paragraph over and over, you may get it.</p>

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<p>I didn't uncover it for NEC, they were already aware of it.</p>

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<p>So what's the point of coming here? Seems like some NEC grudge. They are aware of it, they found a range that stops the so called flickering. Not getting enough attention since the last time you came here with this so called issue? <br>

I'm done, you're a vortex of wasted time, the history is rather clear. You want the flickering to stop? Use the range of values they recommend, send the display back, whatever. </p>

<p>No, this is not an NEC grudge, but an NEC issue and you may understand the difference if you really, really try; NEC gets it. Now please go away unless you have something to contribute.</p>

<p>Not to get in the middle of this, but Fran, did you at least try changing the values? It couldn't hurt.</p>

<p>Some last thoughts,</p>

<p>1) Could it be external electromagnetic interference? The only way to check would be to move it to another physical location - another house or building.</p>

<p>Don't laugh too hard at the thought. Back in the day (the 1970's) my I.B.M. field engineer told be about a strange problem they were having at another site. Several time a week at about 4 PM a customer's multi-million dollar mainframe computer would crash. Diagnostics showed the machine was in perfect operating condition. Everyone was stumped until they realized they were near LA International Airport. In the afternoon when the winds changed, the airport would change the active runways and slew the radar dishes around. The radar beam would cut through the building where the computer was housed and caused the crash. The company put a grounded metal plate over the wall of the room facing LAX and the problem was solved. You could say they gave the computer a "tin foil hat". </p>

<p>2) Dirty power could be a problem. Is your power through a UPS? If so, connect directly to the wall. If not and you are attached directly to the wall, try borrowing a UPS. Or move the monitor to a different physical location and see if the problem persists. If you are using a power strip, try disconnecting from it and going directly to the wall.</p>

<p>Admittedly, these last thoughts are a reach, but ...</p>

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<p>Could it be external electromagnetic interference?</p>

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<p>I agree Brooks this <em>could</em> be environmental, electromagnetic or otherwise and pointed out this <em>possibility</em> of which Franz ignored (dismissed?) by suggesting I'm not being helpful. Flickering ceases with settings recommend by NEC, problem solved.</p>

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<p>Not to get in the middle of this, but Fran, did you at least try changing the values?</p>

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<p>He said he did change the values and he said the flickering stopped. Why we need to get into the middle of his is questionable. </p>

<p>Brooks, This problem happens the same way, during warm-up of the monitor, with two different computers. It starts within the first minute of powering up the monitor and disappears after a while and doesn't come back until you power the monitor down, let it cool for an hour or so and turn it back on. It's definitely an anomaly related to warm-up of the monitor (I have left the computers on all the time to make sure it is not caused by warm-up issues with the computers). This behavior also rules out dirty power as the source of the problem; dirty power doesn't synchronize with when you turn the monitor on and how long the monitor has been powered.<br>

NEC has told me that they have seen this type of issue before and asked me to run some very specific tests to see if it's the same issue in my monitor. The results are now being reviewed by NEC.</p>

<p>Andrew,<br>

1) Environmental or electromagnetic sources don't synchronize with when you power the monitor on and how long you run it.<br>

2) NEC did not suggest to change the luminance setting to solve the issue; they asked me to try other luminance levels to troubleshoot the issue, to get to the root cause and you still don't understand that.<br>

3) NEC has seen this issue before in their products, hence the very specific tests they asked me to run.<br>

4) Problems don't get solved by ignoring them.<br>

Need more explaining or are you getting it now?</p>

<p>You're of course absolutely right about everything you've ever written. <br /> <strong>Why</strong> come here considering you've found a couple of ways to circumvent this flickering issue? Did NEC ask you to go to two photo forums and query other users? <br /> My PA272W doesn't flicker, ever. My PA271W doesn't either. No one here has (or ever) confirmed their NEC's flicker. <br /> Just what to you hope to gain considering you're presumably still in the middle of searching for some solution (?) to a problem that goes away if you set the cd/m2 as instructed or let the display warm up? What do you hope to gain? <br /> Tell NEC you're so upset by their <em>awful design</em> you want your money back, get a PA272W, it doesn't flicker.</p>

 

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<p>Have any of you seen similar issues with NEC monitors and what was the cause and solution?</p>

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<p>No, not ever. Get it?</p>

<p>Here's how to stop flickering on YOUR display:<br>

1. Let the display warm up (should be done, even with LCD before work).<br>

2. Calibrate to a range of 95 or 115 nits.<br>

3. NEVER turn the display off (let the screen go black after X number of minutes). I never turn mine off, no problems. <br>

4. Get another display.</p>

<p>Andrew,<br>

One more time: NEC did not instruct me to set a particular luminance as a way to make the problem go away, Get it?<br>

And it's not as simple as letting the display warm up. Sometimes, and it also depends on whether you use a DVI-D or HDMI interface, it takes less than one minute to start flickering, sometimes it takes more than an hour. Sometimes the flicker goes away after 5 minutes, sometimes it goes on for hours. See the problem? NEC does. I do.<br>

Over time, the level at which the flicker occurs changes; my first unit was fine for a year and a half, the replacement was fine for one month. See the problem? NEC does. I do.</p>