Kodak reports increasing professional film sales

Discussion in 'Film and Processing' started by francois_p._garnier, Nov 22, 2011.

  1. Scott DiSabato from Kodak reports that sales of Kodaks professional photo film (Portras, all BW films, Ektachrome 100G and 100VS) have siginificantly increased this year.
    Here is the source:
    http://soundcloud.com/film-photography-project/film-photography-podcast-2011
     
  2. I don't think Kodak ever had major issues in selling product; there is yellow everywhere. Their real challenge is to properly manage their business.
     
  3. I have done my part. I buy 5-10 rolls of 120 film a month retail prices too. :) Have you all done your part?
     
  4. Yes Larry, I am doing my part ;-). Buying Ektachrome E100G, E100VS, Elitechrome 100 ExtraColor and TMY-2 on a regular basis.
    Always fresh stock.
     
  5. Go Kodak! That's a relief to hear their film business is doing good.
     
  6. I used to buy a 5 pack of tmy (120) a week, when it was about $21. The local sharks here jacked it up past $31 a year and a half ago, way before Kodak did. I did the same for Ektar (120), but stopped for the same reasons. My freezer is getting empty. This must hurt Kodak.
    I buy more volume, but less frequently online now. This has also introduced "other" brands of greater value into my freezer space... I'm happy, but Kodak may not be....
    Sadly, I don't 'Love' tmy like I did txp. Lucky for them I also lost Neopan 400 (120) or I would not be buying tmy at all. There is not much (fast) in 120 that is super high quality. Did I mention that I miss txp?
     
  7. I miss Neopan 400 but TMY-2 seems to work in Xtol real nice. As for the price jack About 4.99 a roll for me and that is within my budget.
     
  8. Spearhead

    Spearhead Moderator

    Their real challenge is to properly manage their business.​
    It sounds like that's what's happening. He's very careful to say that "revenue" increased, not volume, which he avoids. So they have been successful at raising prices when volume isn't growing.
     
  9. Larry I have switched to doing mostly reversals and TXP and Neopan 400 were stunning. I have not quite got TMY to give me results I am looking for. But thats just time.
    There is still lots of choice in 35, its the 120 thats becoming scary....
     
  10. This is why I buy 120. Others can buy 35mm. I do shoot 35mm but I would say 99% B&W and mostly bulk film. I though did buy some 35mm From Freestyle a few months ago as it was a good price on ACROS. One thing I also try to do is also buy developer every now and then. I do all my B&W processing at home so I worry about chems as much as film.
     
  11. @Jeff: The volume is growing. He said that until the middle of October this year they have already sold as much films as in the whole year 2010.
     
  12. Spearhead

    Spearhead Moderator

    He said that until the middle of October this year they have already sold as much films as in the whole year 2010.​
    He absolutely did not say that. I'm pretty amazed at the listening skills being demonstrated here. He says, at 2:08, that the REVENUE in October is the same as 2010. Not the volume, the REVENUE. Because he avoids saying anything about volume, it would appear that they have made the REVENUE by raising prices, not by increasing volume. REVENUE is money, not volume.
    I really don't care, but I do follow Kodak. I used to do a lot of business with them (as a product vendor.)
     
  13. Operating earnings from film has DECREASED by 98% from last year for 9 months: 86million (2010) vs 2 million (2011)
    Then there's this:
    Film, Photofinishing and Entertainment Group third-quarter sales were $389 million, a 10%
    decline from the year-ago quarter, driven by continuing industry-related volume declines.
    Third-quarter earnings from operations for the segment were $15 million, compared with
    earnings of $28 million in the year-ago period. This decrease in earnings was primarily
    driven by significantly increased raw material costs, particularly silver, and industry-related
    declines in volumes, largely offset by cost reductions and price actions across the segment.

    Then there's the private equity firms that want Kodak out of the consumer printing, digital camera and FILM busines that have invested millions upon millions into Kodak - see any financial website and look for news on 'EK'.
    Then there's Kodak's management's poison pill preventing any take-overs that are not management approved.
    And any increase in film sales for a particular line just isn't good enough - assuming that the news is correct that those lines have increased. The decline in film sales are so great, those increases are chump change - which means they are in no way enough to keep the film division (FPEG) going.
    Sorry folks, Kodak is doing what her founder did: commit suicide.
     
  14. Perhaps we can agree that film sales aren't dead. At the store I work at outside Chicago, we process C-41 and E-6, as well as hand-processing traditional B&W, in sizes up to 120. Sales of film and processing obviously aren't what they were before the advent of digital photography, but they're good.
    In particular, we do a brisk business in the sales and processing of 120 film. Hobbyist photographers who couldn't have afforded 120 cameras ten years ago find relative bargains on the cameras. Once they start shooting and see the image quality they can get from larger films, they're hooked.
     
  15. Amen. I now have MF cameras that 10 years ago I could only dream of.
     
  16. Spearhead

    Spearhead Moderator

    Perhaps we can agree that film sales aren't dead.​
    I think almost everyone would agree with that. The problem is when people put forth "data" that isn't. It doesn't help anyone or anything.
     
  17. Perhaps we can agree that film sales aren't dead.​
    Yes I agree. But try to stay in business (i.e. pay your: bills, your employees while you can keep them, location, etc ... )
    This isn't about ideology - this is about market forces.
    Will film die completely? Nope. Can everyone who's made a living on film keep doing what they're doing"? Nope.
    Film will go the way of Glass Plates - not as fast - the curve for the slide will decline at a smaller slope.
     
  18. We still have glass plates. :) Yes for me it is a hobby nothing even remotely like making money from it. Will some Pro photographers continue to use film? Yes but only as a part of their business. Fine Art photographers? Well they will use the bulk of film along with people like me who just enjoy using film. I am one of the strange people who still finds it magical every time I take the lid off a daylight tank and see an image that I made with nothing but a few chemicals and a roll of film that I loaded and shot in one of my many cameras be they classics,antiques or even toy cameras.
    Larry
     
  19. We still have glass plates. :)
    That's my point - we still have glass plates but not manufactured by big companies.And glass plates are a specialty item that costs quite a bit of money - too expensive for our typical artist.
    Fine Art photographers? Well they will use the bulk of film along with people like me who just enjoy using film​
    It's not enough to keep an entire division in business. In other words, keep using film all you want but it's not enough for big companies like Kodak to stay in the business.
    Kodak must leave the film business and other business lines or it will die. Period.
     
  20. Or let me state it this way:
    In 2017 you will pay ....
    $20 for a 36 exp roll of B&W film.
    $200 for a 100 pack of B&W paper for your typical resin coated paper.
    Chemicals ... I don't know ... they're not silver based so I'm not sure what they're going to do. But rest assured they'll be much higher.
    Color?!? digital is killing it. Just look at the E6 kits and C41?!? Jobo doesn't make their stuff anymore and support is nil at best.
    Color film is going to be dead, dead, dead.
    B&W is going to be just an artsy fartsy market - not enough for a big multinational. In other words, in 2017 we'll just have Harman (Ilford and Kentmere) and Foma. after that? don't know.
     
  21. Don't forget EFKE/ADOX and Lucky. :)
     
  22. There is significance in the availability of chemicals.
    I would be happy shooting E6 if the developers were actually available were I live (Montreal is not exactly a remote small town). Developing C41 is pretty much Dependant on me getting stuff through the mail (powders), which is not prime.
    Too many idiots have figured out how to make bombs from anything they can get their hands on. DIY developers become a bit nuts to acquire and will only get worse as time gos on.
    This is what will kill those two markets.
     
  23. I just got a 100 foot roll of ORWO N74 in the mail (the UPS) today so there's another company.
     
  24. I forgot about ORWO. I am also using PolypanF a lot these days. I have not found though a place in the U.S. to get ORWO from though I have heard good things about it. I shot some a few years back but I am pretty sure it was re labeled FP4+. As the development times were the same.
     
  25. Peter, if the viability of the E-6 film/processing market was predicated on people who hand-develop their transparencies, Ektachrome-type films would have been dead shortly after their introduction in the 1940s. The number of people who ever hand-developed Ektachrome films has always been small as compared with people who have hand-developed traditional B&W films.
    There is no good reason to hand-develop color films. Unlike B&W films, color negative and transparency films were designed to be machine-processed, and you can't do a better job hand-developing them as opposed to running them through a procesor.
    In DuPage County, Illinois, we used to have four E-6 labs. Now my store is the only one.
    I'm certain there will come a time- in a matter of years, not decades- when we'll close our E-6 line. That said, I'm somewhat surprised and pleased by the number of folks who still shoot E-6 films and bring them in for processing.
     
  26. I lost my last E6 lab here not to the fact that they did not have enough business but to a lease problem where when they moved to the new location the Walgreen's had a no compete clause in the lease as they were the Main store in the strip mall and the company was doing the processing as a side business they were an Ad agency. 5 people went unemployed. :(
     
  27. There is no good reason to hand-develop color films.​
    Finger prints and scratches. I don't like them. Companies are lowering costs which means employees are not paid enough to give a s**t. It shows.
     
  28. Eric wrote "There is no good reason to hand-develop color films. Unlike B&W films, color negative and transparency films were designed to be machine-processed, and you can't do a better job hand-developing them as opposed to running them through a processor." Though I mostly agree with most of what you said, I don't agree that there's no reason to hand develop color. If you live a long ways from an E-6 lab--which I do--then hand-developing can give you a same day turnaround. I've needed that for professional work. Secondly, hand-developing (actually Jobo) can afford a significant savings. Thirdly, a lot of machine developing--especially C41--really sucks: scratches, dirt, careless cutting, etc. If you live in a major city, you can probably find a decent lab. Out in the sticks you spend a lot of time waiting for the mail.
     
  29. Yes my friend who lives here in town who was 100% digital 2 months ago is now shooting MF and developing C-41 at home. He has never processed film of any type before in his life. I do his B&W for him. Od but his wife works at a Walgreens C-41 lab and after a few rolls there even by his wife he gave up on them because they don't keep the chems up to snuff. One roll looked like bleach bypass from them.
     
  30. Encouraging pod cast but I guess I am not convinced that things are turning around for Kodak film. I hope that Kodak sticks around however.
     
  31. My hope is that if they do sell it off someone with sense keeps the Film part going. Funny thing is the Film part made money yes lesser amounts or equal but it made money. the market for 35mm Slide film is almost gone. I know that but the buildings machines and taxes are payed... It has though the potential for someone who has to not report to share holders and also the city to keep some type of production going. Will some idiot do that? You never know a few idiots are building rockets to the moon without NASA. :)
    The worst that will happen? It dies. The best it lives.. Such is life..
     
  32. Hey Jeff thanks for the link. Message me with some results. I will try to look up other peoples results. I have used movie film stocks for years.... .... I used to get XX for about 3-5 cents a foot short ends.. seems no short ends and we know what happened to Plus-X movie film.
     
  33. When terms like 'Artsy Fartsy" start turning up in a thread,you know it's time to quit.
    The thread,that is.
     
  34. Hi,
    @ Jeff Spirer: I've contacted Kodak and asked about the numbers: The Kodak rep. confirmed that they have indeed this year higher sales numbers, more volume than last year.
    @ Doug Harl: 1. If you had looked for the last years at Kodaks balance sheets you would have seen that the Film, Finishing and Entertainment group at Kodak has always been profitable. They have always earned money with film, RA-4 paper, photochemistry etc.
    For for many years now they are making huge losses in their digital business. There they do burn millions of bucks each quarter. They have used the profits from film to compensate the losses in their digital business. Without the film profits Kodak most probably has been insolvent some time ago.
    The film group at Kodak would perform much better without this 'raping' and profit squeezing by the digital business.
    Kodaks major problem is the digital business, not film.
    2. Glass plates are still produced by bigger companies: Agfa-Gevaert and Ilford are producing them on a regular basis.
    3. Your 'doom and gloom' statement about color film photography clearly indicates your lack of market knowledge: 95% of the current film market is color film, 5% is BW.
    And then there is the huge market of color negative RA-4 paper. A classic product of analogue photography, which is even growing. Most of the digital shots which are printed are printed on RA-4 paper (via online services), not on inkjet.
    Fuji is the market leader here, followed by Kodak. A sound, profitable business. And it is no technical problem to coat film and photopaper on the same coating machines. Some companies are doing exactly this for decades.
    4. What do you think is the field with the biggest growth rates in the whole photo industry (digital and analogue)?
    It is the toy camera movement, Lomos, Holgas etc. .There you have growth rates from 30% to 100% p.a., depending on the country you look at. No other segment in the photo industry has such high growth rates. There are already more than 1 million of these photographers worldwide, which have exposed about 20 million rolls of film last year. And they are shooting color, and especially like slide film (one of the reasons slide film will stay).
    This year about 1,2 million new cameras of these types are expected to be sold worldwide. Every year new camera types are introduced, currently more than 30 different models are offered by different manufacturers.
    I've had recently a long talk about this subject with a market analyst.
    4. Your prophecies about future film prices: This nonsense is told now for more than 10 years. And, did it happen that film prices get through the roof? No, it did not happen. Some films are even cheaper compared to ten years before if you calculate inflation.
    Sales volumes of photo film are now about 15% of the record value in 2001. The crash in photo film sales lies behind us, it is in the past, not in the future. And some segments already have stabilised. Both Ilford and Adox reported increasing film sales in 2010. Some segments have significantly increasing sales.
     
  35. I forgot whether Double X is still available at The Film Emporium. I might try to buy a little more Plus-X in 120 if I can find it. The 100 foot rolls of Plus-X still around look very expensive.
     
  36. Well Kodak's CEO came from Hewlett-Packard. Looking at the cast of miscreants that have been in and out of HP and their track records is it any wonder that Perez's strategy for EK is failing?
    I'm encouraged by the general growth of film use and interest world-wide. I predict there will be a push back on the motion picture front as well.
    Organics rule the future.
     
  37. So the film, photofinishing and entertainment segment made a crisp $2 million (operating income) in the first 3 quarters of 2011 while the rest of the company had a $690 million pre-tax operating loss through 9/30/11. The film unit will certainly have to have a stellar 4th quarter in order to fund the $160 million of annual interest expense resulting from their $1.5 billion of debt. I am sure their employees would also appreciate Kodak's continued funding of its $2.5 billion of underfunded pension and retirement benefit obligations.

    It is a unrealistic to think that the film unit alone can possibly pull Kodak out of this financial mess. We can only hope that when the dust clears there is some semblance of a profitable and sustainable film business that someone would be willing to acquire or that the ashes of Kodak can be restructured around.
     
  38. Well Garnier sounds like he knows what he is talking about. I mean he called Kodak and got the scoop. So I am going with the Kodak film is doing ok story. Anyway I still shoot some film and will continue to do so as long as I can. I have never had an issue with buying film. BHPhoto will just send it right away when I need it. My problem is getting it processed. As long as Kodak hangs in there I will hang with them. It's been a lifetime thing for me and I see no reason to quit on them when times are hard. I have a couple rolls of the new Portra film and I should shoot that up over the weekend with the family coming around and all that.
     
  39. The doom and gloom here is way over the top. The world has always been coming to an end.
    Let's shoot some film. The new Portra is brilliant.
    00ZeB4-418509584.jpg
     
  40. Amen brother Amen.
     
  41. If we keep using Kodak products, Kodak makes money which makes Kodak happy which keeps them making the products that we want.
     
  42. I have found that Hewlett-Packard has been run by very suburban people recently. iPod tattoos, anyone?
    Hopefully Kodak's culture and history will uplift everyone who works there. I'd love to work for Kodak, but I'd rather be taking photos! Anyway... it depends whom you listen to (doesn't it always?) but some DPs are saying that film is being used more in high-budget TV production that it was a few years ago. I don't know really as I have no actual contacts there.
    Some big movies have been shot on film recently (all of Christopher Nolan's major projects; Black Swan was Fuji with some DSLRs thrown in). Kodak does not seem to want to promote that? Hello, Kodak, is anyone home? I guess they can do another logo change or label cheap VHS tapes with the Kodak brand.
    Dear Kodak,
    I love film even though I mostly shoot digital. Please keep promoting, making and improving it.
    One of your fans,
    Karim
     
  43. Nice produce shot Anand. Amazing quality.
     
  44. Beautiful shots Les. I particularly like shot number 2.
     
  45. To Larry's remarks early in this thread:
    Yes, I have diligently been buying film and 120/220 as a priority. To all, I would recommend updating your libraries and get copies of the Anchell cookbook for chemistry formulae etc. Also consider experimenting with developers "other than X-tol" so that when kodak jerks that chain, you are ready for the transitions in home development.
     
  46. Kodak sold the chemical business and the people who bought it make it now for Kodak and others. It is sold under the Legacy Pro name by Freestyle. You can still get Microdol-X and HC-110R along with D-76R and all chemicals no longer sold under the Kodak name.
    Kodak can "Jerk" all their chemicals and they will still be sold just under other names.
     
  47. I think I am going to give C41 processing at home a try. The labs are all to far away and I think it will prove to be a lot easier and possibly a bit of fun to process my own film.. I think over the weedend I will order a tank and a Tetanol kit and give it a try.
     
  48. I was looking at BHPhoto and noticed that the Plustek scanner 7600i SE that I have been watching is discounted quite a bit so I ordered one. I will put my C41 processing at home plan on hold until the beginning of the year.
     
  49. Larry is absolutely right concerning chemistry. The Kodak chemistry has been made by special manufacturer Champion for years now.
    If you look at the Ilford developer bottles you will find: "Made in Germany". Because the Ilford developers are made by Tetenal for Ilford. That's the case also for many years now. Top quality by special, flexible OEM manufacturers.
    Production and availability of photo chemistry is no problem at all. There are lots of manufacturers worldwide. Even some one man / two man companies operating worldwide, e.g. W. Moersch from Germany.
     
  50. @Francois The sources of your numbers? I'd like to see them. I showed mine - show me yours.
    I don't know what the predictions were 10 years ago. All I know is the current sales and current profits of Kodak's film business - that's all that was said. And if you look at the trend for the last decade, Kodak's film business has been in steady decline. More than likely, in 2012, Kodak will be showing a loss in their film business for the first time in who knows when.
    Repeat this is about KODAK'S film business.
    The fact that KOKDAK's has been profitable in the past does not mean it will be profitable in the future. And considering current trends, it looks like KODAK's film business will die and even if it doesn't, the is a HUGE amount of pressure to eliminate KODAK's film business.
    BUT Kodak IS the market leader in the film business and everything happening to Kodak is happening to everyone else - no doubt about it.
    AND you can keep using it until you're blue in the face but the fact is, it's going away. Didn't do any good for Kodachrome, the Ektachromes that were ditched, Plus-X, Portra NC and VC - Oh, they were combined "wink" "wink", etc ....
    Make fun of me all you want, poo-poo what I say.. but every time there's an announcement here of a film being discontinued, I just see more and more confirmation of the reality of what's happening in the film industry.
    This is a classic case of a "disruptive technology" and it's AWESOME to watch!
     
  51. Les you made my day.
     
  52. That must be a workflow issue as I don't recall ever getting a blue face from any of my images from film. Is this from portraits of smurfs?​
    "Blue in the face" is a phrase - I'm not sure if it's an idiom or a metaphor - it's been a while since my English classes. But what it means is that you can keep doing something until the point of failure - whatever it is - and it still doesn't make any difference.
    For example in the case I've mentioned about buying film to keep the companies making it to continue making it, what I meant was that all of you can keep buying film, even using your life savings and borrowing money to buy more film, and it still won't make any difference in the decision as to whether to keep manufacturing film or not.
    Or to put it another way, you can keep buying film from Kodak, but it will make no difference in their decision to stop making it because their sales and profits have declined to the point where they will stop making it regardless of any short term bump in sales.
    And even if sales actually increase, they still may close down the FPEG division because of projected sales and profits.
    If you look at Fuji, all of their sales and profit increases has been in their commercial businesses and in the commercial end of printing - exactly where the private equity companies want Kodak to concentrate their business. And their sales in film has also been declining as fast as Kodak's and they're still in the business. My fellows and I have been scratching our heads over that one. Japanese public accounting is a bit different than ours in the US for public companies.
     
  53. As a company Kodak's stock stinks loosing over 4 bucks per share. Its share price was better 50 years ago. It has dropped more than 5X in the last year. Major Kodak stockholders want the poison pill reversed, so Kodaks value can be released. If cut up many films will be junked so watch out.
     
  54. Let me try to explain "disruptive technology" some more ...
    Horse driven carriages.
    How many are left? A few actually. Go into most large metropolitan areas and in the park area there's more than likely a guy there with a horse, carriage, and a buggy whip -with a bunch of automobiles driving by it.
    Obviously, he bought that carriage, horse, and buggy whip somewhere. Was it some local merchant or merchants in the city that sold them? Probably not. He had to special order them from somewhere. Yes, he was able to get them - but at his local dealer? Not unless the dealer happens to be based in his city; otherwise he ordered on the internet or catalog.
    You see, before the horseless carriages (automobiles); carriage, horse and buggy whip dealers where in every town or nearby. But as automobiles took over, they eventually became specialty items. In other words, they weren't readily available. Instead of having a buggy whip seller on every corner or in every town, you now have to go on to the internet and search the World to find some and compare prices.
    Or let's stick to photography since it's considered to be a special case from every other industry here. Let's look at Daguerreotypes shall we? And let's go to my favorite film seller (online because all of my local guys don't sell film anymore) and look for "Daguerreotypes". Huh, nothing but a book about it. Well, I'll be. How about glass plates? Hmm we got this. And when I do a google search for Daguerreotype supplies, well I get this. I guess if I dig through those million plus hits, I'll find someone who supplies those things. I'm sure if dig long and hard enough, you will eventually find someone who supplies those things. You will - I have no doubts.
     
  55. My bad, I just got back from Publix and they still had 4 rolls of Kodak color film on their rack. And Walmart still has the FUJI something or another there too with the mailers that go to Dwaynes.
    Just want to be accurate ....
    EDIT: And if Walmart is selling FUJI film .... that may explain what FUJI is still making it. Hmmmmmmm.
     
  56. Some of you people make me want 2012 to get here faster. Be honest. We all know is a smaller market than it was just a few years ago. Some of us like shooting film and will continue to shoot film no mater where we have to go to find it. There is still a market for film that makes money and it too is smaller but still huge. When I say buy film to keep it alive I see even that get a 2012 response. I am one person but together we are many people. I know it can never be a movement like the Tea party or occupy but there is to to this planet than the U.S. and Europe. Believe me people there are many places where using film is still the norm or using it along with digital is just fine.
    I just will go along with Les here and agree I like it ,I use it, I buy it and I process it.
     
  57. Fuji is making film for others too. As is Kodak.... All that Hipster film you see like LOMO? Well it is Made by Fuji or Kodak.
     
  58. Mods ... if you'll indulge me one last statement on this thread - and I promise this WILL be my last ...
    I thought what is happening to Kodak now, wouldn't have happened until 2018. In other words, Kodak's FPEG division is 6 years ahead of my schedule of its decline.
    My worst case scenario has turned out to be a pipe dream.
     
  59. Les sort of like why we still use dogs and a flashlight for coon hunting. I like that.
     
  60. I will use film as long as it's available. When it isn't I will do something different.
    I'm not going to let doom and gloomers ruin my fun.
     
  61. Bill you are my newest friend.. I hope I can be yours too. Some people just don't understand that what I do for fun and to the enjoyment of others is a path I chose. If I ever run out of trail then I know it is time to make a new one but I still am on the trail.
     
  62. Larry, I'm flattered. Now I have two friends, not including my dog who has no choice.
     
  63. Your dog has a choice.. I had one run away... :)
     
  64. I think film is still big business generating millions of dollars in sales each year. Maybe at some point Kodak will sell off it's interest in film but I believe somebody will buy it. For myself I love the fine qualities of film and find it makes a great hobby for me. Yes I have a DSLR but I prefer my F100 as the prints are just more pleasing to me and the process just makes for greater enjoyment as a hobby. Just this morning I ordered a new film scanner and early next year I will learn to process C41 at home to break the stranglehold the vanishing labs have on me. A rangefinder is in my future.
     
  65. Remember when a million was a bunch and enough? Well maybe it is time to downsize and deflate the Earth again...
     
  66. There was a TV show called "The Millionaire" from the 50's I think. I suppose a million bucks in the 50's would have been enough.
     
  67. LOL In the 50s and 60s A million $'s was enough to start a bank. :)
     
  68. Two years ago, I was looked at as the guy who was resisting technology or maybe the guy who was living in denial about the future of photography. Nowadays, I'm noticing that I'm the guy who's "keeping it real". I like the transition.
     
  69. Craig... I like you thought just not your message.. Keeping it real is about the art not the media... I Am real I shoot film I will keep doing it.. I just won't stop doing it for personal work. If I have to for some $ I know that my knowledge of film will sure the hell give me an edge over others... :)
     
  70. Wow, I am really busy right now and can't read everything, but some great comments; Larry's and Ross' really stood out for me upon a very quick read of the recent posts. Funny, how the gloom and doomers always show up, too.
    I've tried to like digital, but it always leaves me cold. I love film and it grows on me all the time, and I use it exclusively. I've done newspaper work in the last few years, and won an award last spring for an image I'd made of two WWII veterans meeting for the first time; it was on Tmax 400, though I think it could have been made on BW400CN, my current favorite B&W for ease of use in my busy life. But I really hope to get into traditional B&W, too. And I've shot many concerts with Kodak's color negative emulsions that musicians are using for different promotional purposes. Some other images made on Kodak color negative are currently being used by an actor in a major tv series for self-promotion. These were made with camera/lenses that were decades old on average; manual focus. These images were made outside in changing light and the film handled it beautifully, I thought. So, I know beyond any doubt that film is extremely capable, and having the "latest, greatest" hardware is often and largely, bull.

    Remember when a million was a bunch and enough? Well maybe it is time to downsize and deflate the Earth again...​
    Larry, that is so profound, and you've summed up what I think about often in regards to the obscene pay that executives in big companies manage to legally extort year after year, and the "trickle-down" effect this phenomenon has extended to their counterparts at the "non-profits", like Blue Cross, and many others. And, of course the way this thinking has permeated Kodak, where in my view, they have wasted an incredible amount of money getting into competitive commodity businesses, while ignoring (as far as marketing) their still quite profitable film and developing (chems) business.
    I think film is still big business generating millions of dollars in sales each year. Maybe at some point Kodak will sell off it's interest in film but I believe somebody will buy it. For myself I love the fine qualities of film and find it makes a great hobby for me. Yes I have a DSLR but I prefer my F100 as the prints are just more pleasing to me and the process just makes for greater enjoyment as a hobby. Just this morning I ordered a new film scanner and early next year I will learn to process C41 at home to break the stranglehold the vanishing labs have on me. A rangefinder is in my future.​
    Somehow, Ross' comments really make sense and resonate for me, as well, though we still have good, reasonably priced C-41 developing here, and they tell me that they are busy.
     
  71. Somehow, Ross' comments really make sense and resonate for me, as well, though we still have good, reasonably priced C-41 developing here, and they tell me that they are busy.
    My actual problem with the labs is that the closet one is 55miles from the house and they usually want me to return the next day. However I would be happy to use a lab if it were possible. They do really nice work so that is not a problem. I am all about small business acutally. Anyway thanks for the nice comments.
     
  72. Maybe this logic could be a rule-of-thumb: digital in the country (few or no labs), film in the city (more or closer film labs). That would depend on whether or not you prefer film by default.
     
  73. Karim, the only constant (moving forward) will be the globalization of distribution. What will happen will be the brick-and-mortar will be the exception, and not the rule.
    I will not matter where the customer is. It will likely all be done by mail. We are not that far off now.
     
  74. Larry, "Occupy Kodak", that's a rip. I promise to buy my new Hasselblad film by March.
     
  75. I don't know if this deserves its own thread or not so I'll post it here: interesting how film bypassed analogue video (though if you're staying with SD it has advantages...). Or maybe it isn't. I mean, we had this interesting period where video cameras got smaller and took VHS-C or 8mm tape. And editing was probably more troublesome than 8mm film and with crappy effects. Then we had floppy disk based Mavicas (cool but crap). All those formats, with the disadvantages of film but none of the advantages, are gone.
    So basically if you want to match 16mm film you need 2K RAW - which for some stupid reason people have bypassed for fad cameras like the 5DII with its soft image and 4:2:0 H.264 mastering output. To match 35mm you need 4K+.
    Super 35 (2-perf height) is about 5.7Mpx or a bit less (this accords with 135 format with its equivalent of 24Mpx or so on Ektar 100). RED EPIC (and therefore Scarlet-X) is 8.9Mpx (don't know if that is from 5K or 4K mode). But REDs are APS-C or equivalent.
    For stills, MF film outperforms 80Mpx MF sensors (or matches them).
    So there you go.
     
  76. It should have its own thread as it will derail this one. I am tempted to reply, but this is as far as it goes.
     
  77. I don't know anything about video myself. Currently I do not own one. I suppose with a grand child on the way I should buy one but I think I will skip it and let my daughter and husband take care of that part. They have lots of gadgets for everything.
    Or maybe I could sell my D200 and DX lens and buy a fuji x10 for snapshots and video. That might work out. I hardly use the D200 anyway. The Fuji would make a handy travel camera and I could carry it around on my bicycle day trips. The D200 or F100 is to bulky to take with me however I did on Thanksgiving anyway. I carried the F100 on a 3 hr bike ride with two of my daughters. I took some photos of them, a barn and a cow. I saw two bald eagles in a tree but they were 300 yards away on private property. So I just squinted at them.
     
  78. I have been using a Nikon D7000 recently and whilst it is fun to use it will not replace film for me - but will be used where needed. I have just ordered 30 rolls of Kodak and Fuji to keep me going for a while.
     
  79. 30 rolls is a good chunk of film. That's about what I shoot in a year.
     
  80. Not really. I get about 25-30 rolls out of a 100', and I go through at least 2 a year (not including the 120).
     
  81. If I shot film for every assignment I had for this year, I estimate that I'd have used 50 36exp. rolls (this is in addition to personal work, experiments etc.).
    Mind you, I don't make my living from photography so at most I'd have no more than two assignments in a month. If I were full time I'd no doubt be shooting 100 rolls a year or more... although it gets hard to estimate how much film you will shoot for non-existent projects!
     
  82. I cannot find b&w film period in my town and Kodak film is nonexistent in Wal-mart, Target, Meijers, etc. There is a Murphy's Camera store 25 miles away and there isn't any discounts on anything there. Kodak has returned to their humble beginings, shoot the film and send in the camera. Are there any film makers in our neigboring countries south of the border? Why not? It couldn't possibly cost as much as in the USA. Just a thought.
     
  83. I get all b/w and most color film from BnH. I have used film since 1968, I do have Nikon digital but for me film will always be first. I also Ive noticed used film cameras are still selling well. C-41 at our Wallmart is bad, lots of trash at times. I taught my daughter to do all my b/w developing. I do not think I willever see the end of film, but others may know more.
     

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