Keeping batteries charged

Afternoon everyone,

 

It's time for one of my questions that I should know the answer to but I don't. A simple one as usual. I've kept my older dslr bodies since they still work and might be come in handy at some point. Besides they don't bring much in sales so why not? I've noticed over time that the batteries, even when fully charged, tend to drain power after 3-4 weeks. This seems true in the D200 and 300. My D1X, which uses Nimh batteries is even worse. If I store these batteries outside the camera the problem disappears. The question then is, will all of the setup programming I've done stay in place or will the lack of battery power cause it to be lost? All these batteries have a finite number of cycles and I see no need to waste them. I've probably asked this before but don't recall. As for owners manuals I don't have the ones for the older bodies or can't find them and my newer bodies somehow came with owners manuals in languages I don't speak. Go figure. Anyone with experience let me know. Thanks.

 

Rick H.

I've left my D300 without the battery for months, maybe longer and the settings stay put. I wonder what the life span is of the internal battery holding the settings...or is there one.

Haven't tried it with cameras, at least not intentionally, but with some devices it was useful to run the battery down all the way once in a while before recharging. Lasted longer after. Theoretically a battery should last unused in the camera more than 6 months - that said it is easy enough to schedule and execute change to a fully charged battery at a set point when the camera is mothballed.

Settings are maintained by "flash" memory and should have a pretty unlimited life, not affected by whether the camera's regular batteries are in or not.

 

LINK

I wonder what the life span is of the internal battery holding the settings...or is there one

There is, and it is topped off from the camera battery - which is one reason why the camera battery is run down over time (in addition to its natural discharge). I don't know if this is the best thing to do but I keep a battery in the camera at all times (at least with the Li-ion ones) and replace it when it runs down. The ones I always took out were alkali ones - no matter which brand, they all eventually leak.

Edited March 21, 2018 by Dieter Schaefer

I bought a D200 not too long ago that wouldn't hold its clock settings but otherwise was fine.

 

A trip to the manual said that it has an internal rechargeable battery, and I remember reading that the camera needed to be powered(i.e. a charged battery inserted) for 48 hours to recharge that. I THINK it said that the battery would last a few months without the camera having power.

 

Some other cameras use primary cells, and depending on the design they may be user replaceable or may need a trip to the factory. I don't THINK the D1 series batteries are rechargeable, but whatever the case they are buried deep in the camera. I have a couple of "dead" D1Hs where I suspect this is the problem, and keep meaning venture into one(funny enough, I think I have 3 D1Hs that exhibit the same symptoms and only one that works. On the other hand, I have 3 or 4 D1s, including one that looks like it's been run over by a truck, that work fine and my D1X works fine). The D2 series has a user replaceable battery-I forget where it is, but I know I've changed one.

My batteries seemed to die, and even re-charging does not bring my D200 or D700 on. I read that if you don't use the batteries after a certain amount of time, they lose their ability to be charged.

'Exercise' is good,

 

It's not a good idea to leave batteries in the body for a long period without use.

I have a spare set so that even if I don't use the body for a few weeks and it loses its charge, there is another I can pop right in. I call it "insurance".

My batteries seemed to die, and even re-charging does not bring my D200 or D700 on. I read that if you don't use the batteries after a certain amount of time, they lose their ability to be charged.

 

Yes, batteries self discharge. Some faster than others.

Depends on the battery and charger, if the battery charge level drops below a certain point, the charger may refuse to charge it. And this is not only for camera batteries.

Lithium batteries are more touchy about this than other batteries.

I've noticed over time that the batteries, even when fully charged, tend to drain power after 3-4 weeks

That could be self discharge of the battery too and not mainly drawn by the camera's clock & memory support.

All these batteries have a finite number of cycles and I see no need to waste them.

I dare to assume that at least an original Canikon etc. Lithium should be designed for 300+ cycles. If you wanted to waste half of them during camera storage, under the IMHO unrealistically pessimistic assumption that would require four recharges per year, you two need to last almost 40 years. - I wish you to live long and prosperous so you can afford replacement batteries that you'll surely need over that period since something else will kill your current ones. - The only kind of battery that might last that long (with electrolyte change) would be a wet Edison Nickle Iron battery, that would have to be quite huge to power your D1X, since that species isn't known to provide high currents.

I have no clue on what size of NiMh cell the Nikon packs are based. - I suggest investigating if the original ones could be replaced with Eneloops which have far less self discharge than ordinary NiMhs.

With my own elderly cameras I simply don't care. If they need a charge, they 'll get it and if I am planning to shoot a major event they'll get one too. For a casual outing the backup body should bring pictures home in a worst case. SLR batteries are supposed to hold way more shots than I am likely to take. I own one spare battery for 2 RF / mirrorless bodies rated for about 300 shots. But none for the Pentax & Samsung SLRs.

I have a charger capable of measuring the capacity of NiMh AAs my old 6MPs and flashes are running on. - I weeded out a few packs that lost too much capacity.

I'd try to gauge the capacity of dedicated Nickle packs with something like automotive light bulbs and use them to occasionally fully discharge the packs too. But I have no clue how to safely measure Lithiums' capacity.

Li-ion batteries won't leak or corrode if left in place for a long period of time, but if the charge drops too low (<20%?) it may not charge again to its full capacity, if at all. The self-discgage rate for Li-ion batteries is very low, some less than 10%/year. However there may be a small load in the camera which hastens this discharge rate. You should not "top off" Li-ion batteries, rather wait until they are less than 50% charged, then charge at a low rate (if selectable) to maintain maximum life. Most Li-Ion batteries deteriorate after 600 or so charging cycles, regardless of the depth. My oldest video batteries (for which I have an accurate log) have lost about 30% of their capacity by that time.

 

Internal batteries to maintain settings seem to have a very long life, even in disuse. That undoubtedly depends on the device. My Sony A7ii sat idle in my case for over two years, yet retained its settings and 30% of the battery charge. A portable audio recorder (Sound Devices) held it settings (internal battery) for over two years and 90% of the main battery charge. I replaced the internal battery when it failed about 3 years after the recorder was put into service (2011).

-ion batteries won't leak or corrode if left in place for a long period of time, but if the charge drops too low (<20%?) it may not charge again to its full capacity, if at all. The self-discgage rate for Li-ion batteries is very low, some less than 10%/year. However there may be a small load in the camera which hastens this discharge rate. You should not "top off" Li-ion batteries, rather wait until they are less than 50% charged, then charge at a low rate (if selectable) to maintain maximum life. Most Li-Ion batteries deteriorate after 600 or so charging cycles, regardless of the depth.

 

Remember that all Li-Ion batteries and chargers are "smart." I can easily rig up a bench PSU and charge a Ni-Cd or NiMH at any rate I want and it will probably be fine provided that I don't dump in too much current too fast. In fact, I did just that not too long ago with some packs for a Metz 76 series flash(NiMH). Doing the same with Li-Ion can be disastrous.

 

The charging circuit constantly monitors parameters like temperature, charge state of each individual cell, and can adjust the charging rate to "safe" for the cells. If something catastrophic happens like a cell reversing polarity, the entire pack may refuse to charge. I've recelled Li-Ion packs before, but a pack is usually considered a goner if it won't accept any charge unless you have access to "reset" the trip on it. If you watch something like your cell phone or laptop, you will see that most will tend to charge to ~90% relatively quickly(maybe a half hour from 20%) and then can take an hour or better to reach 100%.

 

As for topping off-I like to listen to what Apple says. Granted they don't speak for all makers/distributors of Li-Ion, but they do have a vested interest in proper battery maintenance. If you buy Applecare with your laptop and the battery goes to less than 80% of the design capacity in 3 years and/or less than 1000 charge cycles, they are on the hook to replace it. I can't find the page now, but Apple recommends at least for laptops that batteries be topped up when below 90% but also suggests "exercising" to 50% capacity or less and then charging once a month. At the same time, if a battery is charged fully, then unplugged momentarily and plugged back in, the computer won't top it up unless it falls below 95% in the time it's unplugged.

I have two chargers with slow/fast settings. While the "smart" feature may regulated the maximum current, a slower rate is permitted. Less heat = longer life.

also as batteries age, even if not used for extended time, they dont hold their charge as well.

 

ive got 3 brand new dewalt li batteries i bought in 2011 that dont have many hours on them but I've noticed they dont give me the same preformance they did when new.

also as batteries age, even if not used for extended time, they dont hold their charge as well.

 

ive got 3 brand new dewalt li batteries i bought in 2011 that dont have many hours on them but I've noticed they dont give me the same preformance they did when new.

 

Lithium batteries degrade with age.

So it is a use it or loose it situation with them.

FWIW, in my experience batteries can be all over the place.

 

A while back, I bought a half dozen NOS Li-Ion batteries to fit the Macintosh Powerbook "Lombard" and "Pismo." They came sealed in "Genuine Apple Replacement Part" boxes dated 2004. With two of these batteries installed in one of these computers, I can get 9+ hours of battery life-not bad considering that the computer advertised 10. I have a few more batteries for this series that will give me anywhere from 20 minutes to an hour.

 

Similarly, both my PowerBook 3400c and PowerBook G3 "Kanga"(3400c with a G3) came with good working batteries that would run the computer for ~2 hours. I bought a 3rd NOS battery that's good for 3 hours in the 3400c.

 

At the same time, the c. 2012 battery in my late 2011 MacBook Pro is well past its prime. I was a bit upset since it started throwing "Service battery" messages within the warranty time frame but two trips to the Apple store wouldn't convince them to replace it. I haven't bothered since I upgraded computers around that time.

 

Also, going back to the PowerBook G3s-I've had a bunch of "Wallstreet" and "PDQ" PowerBooks, and I think I only have one battery that will even charge and fully charged it's basically good enough to get me to another outlet(~5 minutes).